86 1 Ton -- How Much Refrigerant and Oil?

"Kevin" wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to know the amount of refrigerant and oil > required for the > A/C system on this truck. To avoid confusion, I'm looking for > the > documented amount of R-12 that should be installed. > > TIA, > Kevin

Have you tried looking for a service manula at the libray yet? Usually when you repair a syetem you only add oil for the parts you change (like compressor, condensor, receiver/dryer etc) and all together it is usually in the 6 to 8 oz range. In your case there is no need to add all new oil unless it has all new parts.

SnoMan,

Thanks. I asked this, as I have a manual... they refer all a/c work to a professional. There is no sticker under the hood either.

This all goes back to trying to revive the a/c. For the last 10 years, it has had a very slow leak (2-3 years before losing noticeable cooling). I verified that it has noticeable pressure in the system, although not enough to have good cooling. I think the system is leaking down to a certain pressure and holds there. With the cost of R-12, I thought about having the system evaced and using the Interdynamics RKR-7 kit. Advance has this kit on sale until July 30. I haven't done anything yet, but am exploring my options. This a/c has some years on it, but really doesn't have a lot of time on the system. I didn't really use it all that much over the years, although cycled it a lot.

The compressor runs well, doesn't make a lot of noise, and the tube going into the firewall is cool, not cold. I feel a little cool out of the vent too. I think I'm still getting circulation and just low on R-12, and for $30 plus whatever it costs to evac, I don't have a lot to lose.

Has anyone out there used an ID kit, and what do you think of it? I'm particularly interested in the stop leak capability. Perhaps I can seal up this kind of leak without going into the system. If it blows out, so what?

I was reading that you put in 80% of R-12 capacity and need to find out how much goes in.

Kev> "Kev> > Hi,

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"" wrote: > SnoMan, > > Thanks. I asked this, as I have a manual... they refer all > a/c work to > a professional. There is no sticker under the hood either. > > This all goes back to trying to revive the a/c. For the last > 10 years, > it has had a very slow leak (2-3 years before losing > noticeable > cooling). I verified that it has noticeable pressure in the > system, > although not enough to have good cooling. I think the system > is > leaking down to a certain pressure and holds there. With the > cost of > R-12, I thought about having the system evaced and using the > Interdynamics RKR-7 kit. Advance has this kit on sale until > July 30. > I haven't done anything yet, but am exploring my options. > This a/c has > some years on it, but really doesn't have a lot of time on the > system. > I didn't really use it all that much over the years, although > cycled it > a lot. > > The compressor runs well, doesn't make a lot of noise, and the > tube > going into the firewall is cool, not cold. I feel a little > cool out of > the vent too. I think I'm still getting circulation and just > low on > R-12, and for $30 plus whatever it costs to evac, I don't have > a lot to > lose. > > Has anyone out there used an ID kit, and what do you think of > it? I'm > particularly interested in the stop leak capability. Perhaps > I can > seal up this kind of leak without going into the system. If > it blows > out, so what? > > I was reading that you put in 80% of R-12 capacity and need to > find out > how much goes in. > > Kevin > > SnoMan wrote: > > "Kevin" wrote: >  > > Hi, >  > >

The question is, are any of these legal? I see some postings and EPA articles (yes, they are dated) that indicate the formulas that you mention above to be illegal.

I want to do this the right AND legal way.

"" wrote: > The question is, are any of these legal? I see some postings > and EPA > articles (yes, they are dated) that indicate the formulas that > you > mention above to be illegal. > > I want to do this the right AND legal way.

The EC12a hydrocarbon based ones are not illegal to use and are very environmental freindly, they are just not EPA certified replacement because of the fact that they are based on hydrocarbons and can burn in open air when condition are right at ambent temps but not in a closed system and when they do burn they give off no toxic gas at all, unlike R12 and R134 which can kill you if you breath their byproducts from burning in sufficent amounts. Personally I have a small stash of R12 but I would not hesitate at all to use EC12 type freons in a R12 system long before I would use R134 in them.

"" wrote: > SnoMan, > > Thanks. I asked this, as I have a manual... they refer all > a/c work to > a professional. There is no sticker under the hood either. > > This all goes back to trying to revive the a/c. For the last > 10 years, > it has had a very slow leak (2-3 years before losing > noticeable > cooling). I verified that it has noticeable pressure in the > system, > although not enough to have good cooling. I think the system > is > leaking down to a certain pressure and holds there. With the > cost of > R-12, I thought about having the system evaced and using the > Interdynamics RKR-7 kit. Advance has this kit on sale until > July 30. > I haven't done anything yet, but am exploring my options. > This a/c has > some years on it, but really doesn't have a lot of time on the > system. > I didn't really use it all that much over the years, although > cycled it > a lot. > > The compressor runs well, doesn't make a lot of noise, and the > tube > going into the firewall is cool, not cold. I feel a little > cool out of > the vent too. I think I'm still getting circulation and just > low on > R-12, and for $30 plus whatever it costs to evac, I don't have > a lot to > lose. > > Has anyone out there used an ID kit, and what do you think of > it? I'm > particularly interested in the stop leak capability. Perhaps > I can > seal up this kind of leak without going into the system. If > it blows > out, so what? > > I was reading that you put in 80% of R-12 capacity and need to > find out > how much goes in. > > Kevin > > SnoMan wrote: > > "Kevin" wrote: >  > > Hi, >  > >

134a system.

It is not the "Choice" but the only EPA approved option at this time that is not a blend of gasses. The performance of a R12 system will degrade when R134 is used in it because R134a is about 12 to 15% less effecient and also runs at 10 to 15% higher pressure too. Also, R134a is not compatable with R12 oil and you have to add a oil to it to halfway "bind" the old R12 oil to R134a to circulate it which means you get a slight overcharge of oil too. New R134a cars have bigger condensors and evaporators to make up for efficeincy loss and a compressor to handle higher pressures too. Some R12 system have enough reserve capacity by design that they will work okay with R134 but a lot of them do not do too well. R134 should only be used as a last resort and is best used if you drain old oil from system and use all R134a oil in it to give it is best chance for long term survival. If you use EC12a (or same thing under a different name) there is no oil compatabilty issues and no loss of cooling either (you might even gain a little too over R12)

If I have read the EPA documents correctly, it is ILLEGAL to mix refrigerants.

BTW, my boss told me he is in a similar situation, perhaps even worse off because his system was opened. He found a garage that will add R-12 @ $25/lb. plus a $35 service fee.

Forget the R-134, I think I'll put some more R-12 in it. It should only take a couple of lbs.

One more question... is there a stop leak for R-12 like R134? I do have one of those leaks that is very slow and gets down to a certain pressure and holds (ever have one of those tires that drops to 22 lbs. and stays there?).

Kevin

Update....

Did a little more research here, and the EC12a option looks attractive. I can get the system vacuumed for about $45 by a licensed shop, then use something like the Duracool HC777. The cost may end up less.

When they vacuum the system, how much oil will be removed? Will I need to add more?

This gets me in the mode where I can top it off if I need to. I'm just tired of the R-12 exercise every couple of years and need something I can work with legally.

I would like to hear of any success or failure stories for those of you who have gone through the same changeover.

TIA, Kevin

"" wrote: > Update.... > > Did a little more research here, and the EC12a option looks > attractive. > I can get the system vacuumed for about $45 by a licensed > shop, then > use something like the Duracool HC777. The cost may end up > less. > > When they vacuum the system, how much oil will be removed? > Will I need > to add more? > > This gets me in the mode where I can top it off if I need to. > I'm just > tired of the R-12 exercise every couple of years and need > something I > can work with legally. > > I would like to hear of any success or failure stories for > those of you > who have gone through the same changeover. > > TIA, > Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Just wondering if you?re aware that the Duracool stuff is propane/isobutane (very flammable) I wouldn?t advise that you install it yourself, but if you do make sure you wear protective goggles, gloves etc.

Also the charging kit by Duracool has those Quick Snap connectors.. the pro ones have a turning knob on top of them to push in the valve, . the quick snap ones don?t.. they just have a push pin inside..

problem occurs if they don?t fit properly.. the push pin pushes too far sometimes.. the charging hose won?t snap on.. and forcing it on will bend the little valve it pushes on.. so when you think you?re all charged up and release the connector, everything comes out... this is just my experience with the quick snap connectors.. I almost had it happen, had I not gone to a shop to have the system tested throughly..

So if you?re still decided to do it yourself, make sure you don?t push that quick connector on with all your force if it won?t snap on easily.. it should go on very easily.. If it?s very close, you can back out the R134a adapter a bit (unscrew it).. Also don?t tighten the adapters very hard at all, on the high side or low side, whichever you use.. the more you tighten it, then more the pin will push on the valve. I?ve read a lot of success stories, so this could?ve been just my car that was different, but I had to replace the low side valve completely.

As for the oil, check out

they sell this "oil analyzer" . RedTek is same as Duracool stuff pretty much.. and it shows if you have enough oil in the system..

And for oil, I?ve read PolyMax2

is good for everything, like R134a, R12, and HC(duracool). If you decide to convert to R134a putting in R134a into a R12 system with PAG oil is very bad apparently because it will break down fast from the remains of the mineral oil. The PolyMax2 apparently solves this problem when switching to R134a.

There are a lot of choices to be made.. I?d recomment you get the HC conversion done profesionally, then get the guy to test the hoses and show you how to top it off yourself whenever needed. This way you?ll know it?s legal and done right(provided you go to a good shop).. You may also want to get an Electronic leak test.. down here it goes for $50 which is not bad.. and they?ll tell you where the leak it.. you can probably just patch it up with some JB Weld (glue stuff from Pep Boys/Wal-Mart)