Oil Relocation Kits - Harmful to your engine?

Which way did you install the filter?

If the filter is hanging down, it will stay full and your pressure will be there fast, if the filter is sideways or upside down, then yes you will lose pressure for a while on starts and the gent was right. I would go for the filter with the valve if in doubt. That extra buck or two for OEM parts is well worth it sometimes.

Mike

86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

mailmover wrote:

Blah, blah, blah. The PH8A, like all Fram filters, is a low-quality oil filter, but it most certainly DOES have an antidrainback valve.

Mike Romain wrote Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:36:30 GMT %n

It's about 45-degrees, rising 6-inches or so from the original block location.

Here's a pic:

FWIW, the stock Toyota filter is half the size. If needed I can change to the smaller filter. Another poster, though, says the P8HA has the valve.

FRAMs aren't known for having good ADB Valves. I once used them on my Honda and the oil light took noticeably longer to go out on the first start of the day compared to the OEM filter. There's nothing wrong with a remote filter kit. Just use a quality filter with a silicon rubber ADBV. Silcon valves are ORANGE in color and can be seen through the inlet holes. If the valve is black, it's the lesser quality Nitrile rubber, which is more prone to hardening with exposure to oil over time.

Frams aren't known for having good anything.

Correct on both counts.

There are many different kinds of rubber very suitable for making anti drainback valves, of which silicon rubber is only one.

Both Nitrile and Silicon rubber are available in many, many colors, including orange and black.

I must give credit to Toyota for employing marketeers so brilliant at what they do that they have succeeded in promulgating the idiotic notion that only Toyota-branded filters contain antidrainback valves.

But the blame for believing it goes to the general public.

"Daniel J. Stern" muttered darkly in news: snipped-for-privacy@alumni.engin.umich.edu:

They build good filters when adhering to Honda's specifications. Canadian Honda OEM filters are made by FRAM (now Honeywell) and have been for at least a decade.

True. You can make polymers literally any color under the sun. But colors are often used as identifiers. In this case, black is generally used to indicate nitrile rubber, and orange to identify silicone. Honda's Canadian OEM filters use orange silicone anti-drainback flaps.

"Daniel J. Stern" muttered darkly in news: snipped-for-privacy@alumni.engin.umich.edu:

Toyota has never asserted any such thing so far as I have ever been aware. Please tell me where you acquired the notion that Toyota's "marketeers" ever said this.

The parts guy is right, but the anti-drainback valve is not your problem at all. Pay attention now, and all will be explained... ;-)

Even though it bolts right up the same and appears to be interchangeable you can NOT use a PH8A filter safely on a Toyota that calls for a PH3614, because it does not have an overpressure relief (bypass) valve inside the filter like Toyota uses require.

Fords have the relief valve - between the oil filter inlet and outlet passages - built into the engine block (or filter mounting adapter), most of the Toyota 4's and V-6's have it inside the filter.

(The only exception I can find right now that can use PH8A is the F-motor - LandCruisers. The F-motor designer was Chevrolet in the

1920's (the "Stovebolt Six"), Toyota bought it. Can't find my paper Fram catalog right now to look for any others, and their online site can't do a reverse search.)

When you drive in sub-zero weather conditions every time you do a cold start the oil pump tries to force the frozen oil through the oil filter - but you can't filter something with a consistency somewhere between honey and mayonnaise, and the oil won't start thinning out until the engine starts warming up.

Without a bypass valve to send the cold oil around the filter element, the pressure on the input side of the filter can spike over

100 PSI - even 500 PSI wouldn't surprise me at all, it's a gear pump.

You seriously risk have an oil filter either blow out the mounting gasket or the base crimp of the filter can from overpressure, and total oil volume loss as it dumps it all on the ground. If you don't spot the loss of oil pressure fast enough, this will be followed soon after by the engine seizing up.

-->--

Well, the fact that Fram filters don't, and being that Fram is the most common aftermarket brand, that made their jobs so much easier.

nate

As posted by a previous poster, most american engines have a filter bypass in the engine block. Most European and Japanese engines place it in the filter. Bypass pressures vary by application and the correct filter should be used to prevent oil starvation. I work @ a Japanese auto dealership and have an OEM filter and a Fram filter cut open. The difference is an eye opener. You get what you pay for!!! I do engine conversions and have relocated the filter only when absolutely necessary. With an american mfg engine it can be done safely since the oil will bypass in the block. The rest of the worlds engines bypass in the filter and ALL of the oil must pass through the filter, hoses, cooler etc causing a restriction in the flow. If you must, use as large as possible diameter hose and fittings. Also, check the filter catalog and find out the pressure the filter will bypass. Be sure it is the same or lower than the original. Better dirty oil than no oil. The "P8HA" is for an american application? NO BYPASS? If so, I'd dump it for at least a stock filter till you do the homework. kend

I don't know the specs on the kit and neither does anyone else here by the looks of things.

You have it positioned so it won't drain, valve or no valve. There 'seems' to be a concern about a bypass valve, not a drain back valve. That 'does' need looking into although according to the 'experts' here an engine won't run without a bypass valve because the pumps put out way too much pressure so the gauge would 'have' to be pinned at max. (in another thread)

Do you have an oil pressure gauge. Does it pin out at cold start like it should if there is no bypass? Or were the 'experts' just full of crap?

That kit is either a great thing or snake oil that will kill your engine it would seem eh?

I tried looking up the specs for the filter and for your kit but could not find them listed.

You know the old saying, when in doubt, RTFM or read the *.* manual.

Mike

mailmover wrote:

There is no such fact! Fram filters are garbage, but the ones designed for applications that require antidrainback valves *have antidrainback valves!*

Numerous magazine ads over the last fifteen years or so.

I just installed a remote filter (Be Cool) on my '04 Tacoma 4x4 double cab. The "Tough Guard" series of Fram filters has the Bypass and filters down to

20 microns (or so it says on the box).

But . . . after taking off the OEM filter, I can see that we are talking apples and oranges. The OEM filter is much higher quality I will be changing mine to OEM very soon. I don't care if Toyota has me fooled - that OEM filter looked and felt like a high quality piece.

The remote filter install went fine except now my ABS light is on. Maybe I snagged a wire somewhere with my big, clumsy hands! Anyway, installed filter on firewall next to brake booster. Very clean look and filter is now very easy to reach/change. Only thing I am going to change is to replace the rubber lines with something stronger - maybe braided steel or something like that.

Foy

Bruce L. Bergman wrote Sat, 18 Sep 2004 04:27:25 GMT %n

Thanks, Bruce for the detailed explanation.

After reading through the thread I have decided to go back to the stock location. Getting leverage to remove the filter from the block was a PITA, and the reason why I relocated it. Couldn't get a strap remover in there, etc.

One brand of filter that makes removal much easier is the K&N line with its hex end.

It's $10 at the parts store though. That hex end is worth the extra $5 alone!

Thanks to everyone else who offered advice. Much appreciated.

-mm

My bad - my relocation kit is from Perma-Cool not Be Cool.

Foy