OT: Starting a new project... MB 190SL

Jan,

You never said what the floors of your MB 190SL looks like? Did the windows and doors stay intact enough to keep water out of the inside of the car? Seems whenever I find a really cool car some kid threw a rock through a window 15 years ago and it's been routinely getting rainwater inside the passenger compartment and the floor is shot. What does the floor of this car look like?

Really cool project. Gotta love those 190s.

Haven't built up enough courage to go inside. (bugs). Windows are all intact and have been closed all this time. But it was parked on a dirt driveway, so I don't know. It had slowly sunken into the ground up to the brake drums, probably axles or floor pan stopped it from sinking deeper :D Have not looked underneath either. I plan on getting it up on jackstands as soon as I get the last 4 lugnuts off.

Got the trunk open. Found the front grille, some hubcaps, body chrome, new (they WERE, in early 80's) front shocks, and some other stuff I don't know what they are yet. Haven't pulled anything out. (bugs). Upon opening the lid, something jumped out and ran for cover. (bug).

Yea. I'll bug-bomb it again.

Jan,

Speaking of lead filling, it seems that you've done quite a bit of it. I was just curious as to what you like to use as a heat source. I'm using Tin, which has a higher melting point than Lead, and I've found that a regular propane torch is just a little bit under powered. I've gone to using Mapp Gas, and it works fairly well (though it is more expensive than propane). I understand that some people use acetylene, but I would think you would want a torch head that gives a rather broad flame, something that I haven't had much luck finding. Most acetylene torch heads are optimized for cutting or welding, which requires a very high heat in a fairly small area. Any tips?

Thanks

I use the lead mix that has lead and tin in it. It has lower melting point that plain tin (or what is said to be tin with no lead). Just before I moved out of Finland, I started hearing rumors about the government phasing out lead filler, and something else (tin based) would replace it. . I haven't tried the new tin-type rods yet. I'm kinda worried because of the higher temp required. So no, I have no answer for you :( Let me know if you find something that works well. You are right, broad flame and not overly hot. Easy to control and move around. Acetylene is out of the question. I've been using a propane torch with lead. I'll ask our bodyshop guys what they know, the next time I see them.

A small update.

The valve cover is HUGE, and held on by just two 8mm bolts.

Opened the oil fill cap and took a peek inside... uh oh. Doesn't look promising.

Go the cover off... in about 10 seconds. And found this.

Funny, those two allen head bolts are still wet with oil.

Oh well. It's ok. :)

I can fix that :D

Jan

oxy/acetylene with a "rosebud" tip(available in various sizes) works very good... but you can easily overheat the panel

vinegar molasses even soda pop (some root beers like A&W have molasses in them) might help you with a cheaper solution to remove that rust!

My daughter did a science project using apple cider vinegar and root beer separately. Both took the rust off some 42+ year old rusty lug bolts that were in my garage. Vinegar worked the quickest but the root beer was effective too! The lug bolts are back to rust free condition. They are black and no scrubbing has been done yet. I was impressed since all she had to do was soak them and the rust literally flaked off within days!

She also tried baking soda in water and the bolts still look the same only wetter! lol

"Paint adheres better to galvanized metal that's been wiped with vinegar" they briefly thought about molasses here! lol I prefer that safer methods and wish I could immerse my '70 Beetle in root beer! lol Someone has tried the hose flowing the solution over larger rusty car parts but the process was taking way too long.

NOW I read about Ketchup and Mayonaise! 8^o

I have got to try Ketchup from those little packets from McDonalds on some rust spots. It should stay put too!

AND spray your clean & rust free parts with some Marvel Mystery oil. I do that with engines that I am rebuilding!

Have fun with your new project and keep us informed!!!

Cool ideas.

The lugnuts are off and So are all exhaust/intake manifold nuts. Those came off easy, phew! Next thing to do is to pop the head off. Well before that I need to figure out where the chain tensioner is and how to get the chain off 8)

I could cut it of course.. looks like I'll be getting a new one anyways.

Jan

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:

>>

unreal.. even the exhaust flange bolts came off with basic hand tools, none of the 3 snapped or stripped? LOL

The exhaust flange itself won't come apart. Argh. Soaking in PB now...

It would probably start even in that condition..

J.

got the cam off, had to cut the exhaust pipe because it wouldn't separate from the manifold. Crank won't turn. Head is about ready to come off, just need to make sure there are no more hidden bolts and such.

No pictures yet, wife took the camera and went to sing with her band.

I got the head off. Combustion chambers and valves (seen from teh chamber side) look surprisingly good.

Two pistons were almost at TDC, and two were down. The cylinder walls on the two that were exposed, had ZERO rust on them???!! That was encouraging. LOTS of crap on top of piston #1, less on the others. Soaking in PB and WD40 now. I'll probably try to tap each piston with a hammer to shock them loose, and then see if the crank would turn.

I think it's safe to say this engine will run again. Now I need to start putting together an estimate for the engine rebuild. The shortblock only has 50k miles on it, I don't think it needs anything. Will see.

Jan

Yeah we want pictures!!!! ;-)

Did you have to cut the timing chain? I wonder why the crank still isn't turning!

I prefer Marvel Mystery Oil over PB and Water Displacement 40! SeaFoam should help free up any carbon on parts.

"Jan Andersson" wrote >

I didn't cut the chain, I managed to remove a chain rail after some moderate cussing, and the tensioner, and it gave me enough room to pull the cam sprocket off with the chain still on it. Easy from there on.

I think the rings have rusted to the cylinders and that's why it's not turning.

PB and WD40 is all I had at home and I didn't feel like going out to get anything else. Staying home with 2 kids..

If the engine still wont' turn tomorrow, I'll probably put the car on jackstands, drop the oil pan, and see if I can disconnect the rods from the crank. It would allow me to see if the crank would turn even just a little bit without the rods. I'll know if it's the pistons or the crank that is stuck. And if there's enough room, I may be able to whack the pistons down in the cylinder and knock the rings loose, one piston at a time. Once they break loose, I think they would easily move either way.

The engine is still in the car, but I think it will need to come out to allow room for some metal work in the engine bay.

With the car up in the air, I can also start looking at the brakes.

Jan

dave AKA vwdoc1 wrote:

New pix:

Exhaust and intake ports are on the same side. Cam is off, rockers look ok and move ok, a couple of them are a bit stiff on their shaft but they'll be ok.

Valves and chambers look ok, wonder what the seats look like. Haven't removed valves yet. The chamber shapes are really weird... looks like the quench area of the chamber goes outside of the cylinder bore :D And there is a pocket in the head for the exhaust valve, deeply recessed above the quench deck... and that's where the spark plug is. I wonder what the idea here was.

And then the cylinders. The liquid had not gone anywhere overnight. I was sort of hoping it would have seeped through past the rings somehow.

I'll try to get the pistons out today, and start working on the brakes.

WELL I am glad you did not cut anything (taboo) to take the engine apart!

I use PB blaster as a sacrificial penetrant but the newer stuff just doesn't seem as effective as the original PB! :-( They will free up!!! (positive attitude) lol

I wonder how some soda pop would have worked? ;-)

I would remove the WD-40(Water Dispersant) and use something more aggressive.

If you can't buy a penetrant that works try some lemon juice, as in the concentrate you use in tea. It will at least need to sit overnight though. Another fluid you could try are the rust converters, contains Muratic acid. You will need to keep an eye on it though as it will start to react with aluminium alloy of the pistons.

Why is everything so extremely corroded? Has the car been sitting close to the sea? You could find forest-wrecks up here that would look new compared to this car.

J.

The car spent several years up north where the rusting started. Then sitting for almost 3 decades down here in extremely HUMID Florida did the rest.

And I have no money for any other penetrants until I get a deposit from the owner. Kind of have to use what I have laying around.

I don't want to convert the rust in the engine. I want to break the parts loose and then remove the rust.

Lemon juice is reserved for rum & coke ;)

I know, you could still try the rust converter as it is aggressive enough to eat most things in its way.

J.