The smooth-running Inline 6 to be replaced?

I wonder how that will work if the petrol/gasoline isn't of the highest quality....

A product from supermarket or independent petrol station in some E European countries might be slightly dodgy...

DAS

Torquey little bugger.

I would not be surprised if the NA I6 was obsoleted in favor of the turbo 4. But you'll still be able to get a turbo I6.

For the foreseeable future, the engine bays will continue to be made to hold the I6, and it will be offered as an option.

I would like see them continue to offer an NA I6 (with direct injection, please!) as on option for those who favor the I6 smoothness and refinement, and who don't need the turbo's extra power.

I've driven a recent 328. It was plenty fast, IMO.

I'd love to see a real, apples-to-apples fuel-economy comparison between a direct-injected 3.0 I6 and the new 2.0 turbo 4. I'd bet the difference would not be worth caring about, to many of us.

Yes but no standard 328 (even the 328iS) was as quick as the current I6 330d so why flirt with fuel consumption hell for a slower car?

Absolutely.

But, if BMW *and* performance *and* fuel economy are requirements then diesel is the way to do it IMHO. I'm not sure if the Americans have spotted this one yet but the Europeans certainly have.

Yes the low capacity high output turbo petrol/gas engines are interesting and have superb *tested* fuel economy *but* you will be able to hear the fuel gushing into the cylinders if you try using that power.

You might not be able to hear that, but after say 100Mm* you will probably be hearing something and it will be expensive

that's 62,000 miles in the US - just after the warranty runs out...

Are you talking about turbo failure or premature damage to engine internals?

I think much of the point is just that the turbo system puts a lot more stress on a lot more parts than a normally-aspirated engine that spends most of its time just loping along anyway.

I've seen plenty of folks get 500,000 miles on the older BMW inline sixes. The newer lubricant formulations help that a lot. I would be very surprised to see anyone manage that with the 4-cylinder Kompressor engine.

You want performance in a small package, and you want efficiency, and long-term reliability is going to be the price you'll pay. That seems to be fine for most people who don't intend on keeping their cars for very long anyway.

--scott

As a percentage very few cars indeed get anywhere near 500,000 miles before being scrapped - my guess is the vast majority at way less than half that. So is there any point in designing for that sort of life?

Well, there are a bunch of issues mixed up in this. First of all, as lubrication improves, engines last longer. So it's possible that as lubrication continues to improve, the high peformance 4-cylinder engines might start lasting longer too.

Secondly, the point you bring up. In the sixties, GM did some studies that basically determined their cars were lasting too long and people were keeping old cars rather than buying profitable new ones. So some serious engineering went into making the time to failure of all parts of the vehicle about the same and about 80,000 miles. In the end, this came to kill GM when the customer did start demanding a more durable vehicle.

On the other hand, there are folks out there who get a new car every year because they have to have the latest model. And there are also a lot of people who seem to have a vehicle-totalling accident every year too.

But, if people had cars that lasted longer, would they keep them? At what point does maintenance cost exceed new car cost? I don't know any of this. But then, I only have 480,000 miles so far.

--scott

Well, the turbo 6's, gas or diesel, do carry a significant price-premium...

This was discussed in here recently. I'm skeptical, personally. I like gas motors.

I guess I really should drive the 335d. This Spring I'll make a point of doing just that.

That's what I'm thinking.

I wouldn't worry about that... Sure, the motor has smaller size and few cylinders to spread the power across, but that can all be engineered-for. Plus, they are designed for fewer RPM's, both in normal use and the redline, which must save wear...

Most engines outlive the car these days - unless they get damaged by a broken can belt etc or a failed cooling system. They don't wear out as once was the case. In the UK when I were a lad cars might have two reconditioned engines fitted in its life. They wore out and started burning lots of oil. The US with its generally larger lightly stressed engines might have been different.

The buying pattern must be very different in the US. Here, most who could afford a new car changed it regularly. Perhaps the majority of other than small cars were bought initially by companies, and tax allowances made it such that they'd be replaced every 3 years max. An 80,000 mile car would have been at the end of its life anyway at perhaps 8 years old.

Given the average mileage in the UK of about 10,000 a year, your car would date from the 60s/70s. And finding spares not easy. ;-)

I was put off by the compulsory auto box. Not that BMW autos are in any way bad IMHO, it's just that I prefer to drive a manual shift.

Actually, BMW auto boxes don't have a very good reputation. There's numerous reports here and on other forums that new BMWs with slush boxes and its "lifetime fluids" are very prone to breaking down at about the 100K mark! That's outrageous and the reason why I wouldn't get one.

In fact, I considered a 335d when the feds were offering the cash for clunker program! The only BMW that qualified was the 335d. I could have gotten $4.5K for my 90 535i, 5spd, 126K miles; another $4.5K from BMW for its "eco" program; AND a $1k tax credit for buying a diesel. That's $10K off a new BMW, so the 335d could have cost somewhere around $36K! Not too bad. BUT, the lack of a manual tranny and the poor reputation of BMW's slush boxes turned me off.

Nevertheless, BMW knows its market, especially here in the US, and if it can get $85K to 90K or more selling 550iGTs, X6s and the

*fabulous* X5/X6Ms, they could care less about offering diesels. Otherwise, they would be bringing over to the US cars like the 123d five door hatchbacks with proper six speed manual transmissions. NOW that is a new BMW diesel I could really get, sigh....

Then those 'numerous reports' have done their job as rumour mongers. Before they can have any significance, you'd need to know what percentage are affected. And compare that with other makes. No car is perfect - all will suffer some failures.

BMW autos are made by ZF. Who make the autos for many other vehicles too. Both my last two BMWs have had ZF 5HP transmissions. The first had over

160,000 miles when I sold it. This one is at 90,000 and is fine. Of course that's only two out of maybe millions. But if you look at the prices they fetch on Ebay etc, it's obvious they ain't in much demand as spares.

Agree, I know of people who had their auto trannies fail in their Toyotas and Hondas (OK, Acuras). They weren't too happy about replacing them either!

Actually, GM also made automatic transmissions for BMWs. I heard there were alot of problems with those. Don't know about the ZF. Do you change your transmission fluid or does it come with BMW "lifetime fluid?" If the latter and you haven't changed yoru fluid, then it good to hear! The concerns I've read about are the latest offerings from BMW and the "lifetime fluid" or may be the lack of fluid changes that appears to be causing failure. Of course, like you stated, it is the internet and you take things with a grain of salt. Good Luck!

My suspicion is that if you ignore the "lifetime fluid" recommendation and maintain the transmission properly, you're apt to do a lot better than the average driver.

But then again, I don't like automatic transmissions for a whole host of other reasons, most notably they have a lot more stuff in there to break, and that they are difficult to repair when they do break, and that they are much less fun to drive unless you spend your life in stop and go traffic. And if you spend your life in stop and go traffic you have worse things to worry about.

BMW is really worried about brand dilution in the US, which seems like a shame to me, but then I'm probably exactly the kind of customer they don't want any more.

--scott

The first car I mentioned with the ZF 5HP was an E34, and that didn't use lifetime ATF. It was changed at the recommended service intervals. My current car has - but IIRC BMW now recommend a 100,000 mile change. Or rather do in the US - not sure about elsewhere.

Lifetime lubrication has been around for a long time in certain car parts

- after all they don't need things greased every 2000 miles anymore. I'm not qualified to say if ATF deteriorates in use. It would be interesting to have it analysed at high miles.

A nice manual can be a pleasure to use. But these tend to be restricted to smaller cars due to simple mechanics. Most larger ones aren't so pleasant

- things like the clutch delay valve see to that. And with the 8 speed autos BMW fit these days the performance/economy difference is far less marked. The latest SMG is quite good too.

You put a grain of salt in there you might really cause a failure...

DAS