Americans Don't Love Trucks Anymore

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:52:11 -0400, C. E. White rearranged some electrons to say:

Of course I don't believe that a Hummer will last 300,000 miles. You missed the point. One has to consider the *entire* process of making and using an automobile. The damage caused by the mining of heavy metals used to make the battery pack (which, incedentally, will most likely have to be replaced before the car hits 100,000 miles), has to be figured into the total cost of ownership, and the cost to the environment.

And why not? I haven't had an S-10 that didnt hit that mark, or damn close to it.

Whitelightning

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:52:45 +0000, Whitelightning rearranged some electrons to say:

I guess you missed the point as well.

Don't forget, that expensive battery will have to be replaced in time. Is that 100,000? The Prius sound like a good Idea, it seems like such a good thing until you really start to think about it. Toss out that battery and electric Motor and just have the Gas Engine and it would be cheaper to buy by far, less polluting, and Gas Mileage won't jump up all that much. I've driven quite a few Prius's from work and that Gas engine is almost always running anyway. If it really got 60 miles a gallon, it might be worth it. There are people though that are modifying them to run on ONLY batteries for in town driving. Charging the batteries up is quite a bit cheaper then gas these days. Of course your spending more money on more battery's, so again, the cost and Benefit, is it worth it then?

Personally I would do what some others are doing. Buying a small used cheap car. Yanking the Engine, and installing a used Electric Motor and battery's. They're quick, quite, and cheap to operate. Your Limited in Range before a recharge, but for around town driving where you get the worse mileage, it could be a bargin. From what I hear it works out to under $1 per gallon maybe it was half that compared to a gas version or something like that.

Ya, blame the President for everything though he has little to do with it. I know that seems to be the thing to do these days! I know, how about blaming everyone going to Wal-Mart for example and buying all that cheap China garbage! How about the whole ethanol scam where it costs more to make per Gallon then Gas, and causing food prices to skyrocket! How about the eco whacko's won't let the U.S. drill for our own oil so we have to buy most of it from out of the country, which is where a great majority of our money is going to, these terrorists Countries. We can't build new Refineries, and yet demands increase year after year!

I could go on and on. The U.S. hardly Manufactures anything these days. Unions have been getting so greedy over the years, they are killing jobs left and right. The Unions at first were there to make the Job Safer and a Reasonable Pay, but now it's gone so far beyond that that these companies just can't afford it and are loosing millions. But you go ahead and blame all of that on the President. Can't wait until we get one of then Democrats into the white house and they turn the US into a Socialist Country, or worse almost communist. Steal money from people who have it, and give it to the poor. Wow if I was really poor why work, I'd be getting paid from all the rich people. Instead of encouraging people to work, even more people quit. Lets get Government Heath Care for everyone, because we how good a job they did with Social Security putting all that money we pay out every year in that Lock Box, HAHA It all goes into the General fund to waste on yet more government Garbage. Medicare works so great also. Don't forget how well it works in Canada,HAHA or Europe where you wait for months to have anything done, where the Government can say you Smoke, it's your fault, we're not going to help you, for example. Where people flee from Canada and Europe to get Medical Treatment here in the U.S.

People need to be taxed even more! I make more per Hour then someone else at work, yet His check is larger, and he get's back at least 3 times as much money in Taxes. Basically paying almost nothing at all in taxes. I'm single with no kids, he's married and has a couple. This Bogus Stimulus package where everyone gets some of their money back, I'll get the $600, He get's like $1200 or something. Ahead of the game. But hey, I guess I have to pay even more taxes when Hillary or Barack gets in office. Not like I have a lot of money. I work my ass off and have my own Medical Insurance.

The mining of nickel impact is a specious argument. The Sudbury mine area has been a nuked out zone for literally tens of decades. The nickle output from Sudbury Operations was in excess 250,000 tons in 2006. 1000 tons annualy is 0.4% of the output. So much for that argument. I agree that the price of fuel and oil is due to a number of things, futures and speculators drives the crude price. The pump price is partly due to this, but a big influence is price fixing and monopoly tactics on the part of the oil companies. I live in the near the biggest oil area of North America, Alberta. Most of what we make here gets exported to the US. Combined federal and provincial fuel tax is 91 cents per US gallon. That's the lowest in Canada. All other provinces tax at $1.20 to $1.50 per US gallon. Right now we pay $4.25 to $4.30 per US gallon for regular. BUT....lo and behold, almost every gas pump in every province in this whole wide country sell the same regular for...you guessed it...$425 to $4.30 per gallon. The only exceptions are a few inner metro mega cities who impose a punitive fuel tax to discourage driving in the metro area. This is price fixing pure and simple. I was just in Arizona / Nevada and it was $3.28 to $3.35 per gallon. $1 cheaper per gallon. End of rant. I need my '04 Avalanche Z71...for winter driving, hunting, fishing, hauling and towing. I just use my '02 Impala LS more for everyday driving and commuting. Going out and buying a new hybrid or econobox to save $20 per fill on the Impala or $40 per fill on the Avalanche is bad economics. I own these vehicles. Paid in full. Saving $120 to $200 per month depending on the month yields a net savings of $2500 max. How much does a decent new econobox cost? Or a hybrid? Or a diesel? 5 years of savings nets me what......$12,500? $15,000 if gas is up another 25-30% over the next few years? Thanks, I'll stick to vehicles I can use and enjoy and save money at the same time.

As a small note, apparently the careful power management of the hybrids, keeping the battery between roughly 50% and 75% of full charge, makes a huge difference in battery life -- to the point that the batteries pretty much are lasting the life of those vehicles (i.e. much much longer than 100K miles). Don't know if those statistics are markedly different places like where I am (southern New Mexico).

No, actually he has a lot to do with it. In an attempt to increase exports, the administration has purposely devalued the dollar. This makes imports more expensive and makes exports less expensive.

A side effect is the increase of oil prices.

I will often bash the ex-governer of texas (not to be confused with his father the respected former President) but for this I don't think there's "blame" simply a side effect of the policies put into place.

Combine the high-import rates with the exessive use of fuel for teh cars and trucks on the road, along with teh reduction in local manufacturing/discovery and you have teh perfect storm.

And who is the blame for that? The consumer is the only one to blame for that.

Whitelightning

That's a expensive battery also to replace! So again how much gas do you have to burn to make your money back on that replacement battery?Aren't these battery's like $4,000 to replace or something? If it actually got 60 miles to the gallon, maybe it would be worth it a little more, but it's far from that.

Yep, you going to buy the cheap garbage from China, instead of the quality stuff in the US, the US looses Jobs, China get's Our Money. It's been going down hill for years. Especially since Wal-Mart has been around. Now it's into the Automotive world. I remember spending $100 Plus on a Brake Rotor, now it's cheaper to buy a new China Rotor then to Waste time Machining the old one. Just take a look at the garbage in your house and see how much of it is MADE IN CHINA! It's getting to the point now where you really have to try hard not to buy something from china. Your loosing your choices. It's China or nothing. It used to be Japan, but now Japan was nothing in comparison to China. I'm waiting for the Day where China Made Cars start being sold here and in great numbers. Maybe if Wal-Mart opened a Car Lot. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

In Europe they pay a whole lot more, but it's mostly TAXES! It's just crazy. My truck will be paid off this month. I plan to keep it for many years to come. I don't want another Car payment, Some of that money can go to the higher gas prices, though I'm driving a little less these days. I'm averaging around 8,000 miles a year at most. I have a short commute, I moved to be closer to work, and go home for lunch. In the warmer weather I'll take my Premium Gas Guzzling jetski to the lake. When the weather is better I'll take my Motorcycle out for a trip. Go out on a 100 or so mile ride, a whole lot cheaper that way, and can be a lot of fun when your not dealing with all the cars that don't see you.

Uh, take a look at Consumer Reports -- Toyotas age very well.

Take what Consumer Reports says with a grain of salt. They have been biased for years.

Bob

Yeah, I've always felt CR is on the take from Toyota. They never do poorly. I am not an "import basher" but I cannot see why they feel Toyota does anything well.

Other than the FJ-40, which had great styling, I don't see much from Toyota that is worth the low-end sheet metal they spew out.

Note: If someone wants to donate a decent condition FJ-40 to me, I'd be happy to outfit it with a Cummins 4BT. :P

A trailer on a Prius would do the job then you wouldn't have to feed the empty truck for 99% of it's use. Gas back at $2.00, dream on. It will be $5.00 soon. You'd better get used to it. May be wise to sell your excess trucks before their price crashes more.

He should trade his Dummer for a Dumb (Smart) car.

You've obiously been living in a different world than me.

Is this TRASH TALK relevant?

Nope I don't have a Toyota of any sort, just hate reading trash words!

How well does that Prius do in axle deep mud? Does it do okay carrying an extra 1500# or so (plus the trailer)? What do those batteries cost to replace? Here's one you'll like: How much damage to the environment does the creation/transportation/etc. of those batteries cost?

The truck is empty approximately 15% of the miles it's driven.

4.5 miles each way to work and back during the week. The rest of the time, it's loaded.

Gas is heading back down. It's losing its lustre as a place for speculators to dump investment money. Might not make it back down to $2.00, but it could.