ATF+3 ATF+4 Dexron TCM replace

Any wrecking yard TCM that has fins will work. You can get one for $100 at a wrecking yard then the dealer can charge you $90 to flash it. That is assuming they still have the flash tool and a tech that remembers how to use it.

Any of the finned ones can be flashed.

flush and refill with atf+3 or ATF+4 whichever you prefer.

Ted

for $100 at

That is

use it.

So the same cost. And although the fins are flashable, what about cables and connectivity. I asked because one tech said $125 for a rebuilt controller but NAPA does not have these and the dealer is $190 which sounds, in this case, a bargain, if it's upgraded as purchased.

I asked the dealer and they said $70 to see if my existing TCM can be upgraded. I wonder if I should ask them if they will charge for something that had a TSB, although long ago, and probably resulted in many failed transmissions (electronically controlled clutch was shifted too slowly causing stress on the torque converter and self-destruction) and the wrong fluid. Dexron is not right and is mentioned in official manuals and places way back then. I'm told it's even on the dipstick but I have not looked.

proper ATF+3

synthetic

What type of flush? A little flush or a big flush? I have been warned by the Chrysler dealer AND Cottman Transmissions not to flush this old tranny because the dirt is keeping it together. Well, it's a rebuilt, 190,000 miles with 58,000 miles on the rebuilding by Cottman (correct fluid and TCM upgrade - who knows, they don't.)

So is there a gentle flush or do you mean a reverse power flush. The destruction is in the details. I am sorry to ask so many questions but I find I make too many mistakes if I don't over-ask. Some people can get by with broad answers. I am not one of those lucky people.

If it's a little flush, if that exists, then it won't get the fluid out of the torque converter which is seperate? You don't mean just drain but a flush, yes?

It's not a question of preference, unfortunately. The ATF+4 is synthetic so lasts longer and does a better job. But my seals are old, 10 years old, and there is at least one reference, justified or not, that the ATF+4 might cause possible seal leakage on these old transmissions which were designed for ATF+2, and then ATF+3 which is non-synthetic.

The ATF+4 is probably a little bit more slippery which is fine in my case. It's not fine if it nudges a seal to leak.

So that's my quandary. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your reply, Ted.

Well, that was somewhat of a joke - you really should call around. If the wrecking yards in your area are full of them then maybe you can get the trans computer for $20.

They are all the same, they use the same harness. '89/90 have to have a wire cut with the newer firmware.

According to the green "Service/Diagnostic Procedures & Refinements Manual for the

41TE/AE Transaxle" by Chrysler, on page 32, 1993-1995 original trans controllers were finned with 4 heat sinks and are flashable. To flash they require Miller CH 5500 flash kit, as well as a DRB tool and a special cable.

It was only the 1989-1992 controllers that were non-finned and non-flashable.

Yours is probably flashable. By the way, the fins are along one edge.

Well, the vehicle is out of warranty so they are legally not obligated to do squat. I think you should just call the dealership and ask their service manager if they have the special tools and a tech that remembers how to flash the '93-'95 transmission controller, then pay them the $70 to just flash it. After all it isn't like they just plug in and have at it. The DRB tool itself is like around $10K also. The tech is going to have to dig around in documentation and such to make sure he's got the right firmware. And of course, like any computer, there is always a slight risk when your doing a firmware update that your going to scrooge the controller because an error happens when it's rewriting the PROM. If that happens then the TCM they got on the shelf is going to go into your car and you will end up doing a lot of yelling, and they probably will end up eating the labor on the whole deal.

I very much doubt that it was still in the manuals for 1994. I know that Dexon was listed on the dipstick for the '89 models but I think even the owners manual mentioned Type 7176 back then. I doubt also that it was on the dipstick in 1994, it isn't on the dipstick in my 1995.

This type:

That is baloney. Read the following:

Keep in mind that this transmission uses a fluid filter that uses a felt-like material, not a screen like some transmissions do. Chrysler really meant business when they designed the filter for this. The fluid must be absolutely clean. There are many small passages in the valve body and even small particles are going to jam it up.

Do not reverse power flush. Unfortunately some shops have invested heavily in flushing machines that they want to use to make money with and are so turning a simple procedure into a more complex one and charging a lot for it. I frankly recommend that if you change your own oil that you do your own trans flush on these transmissions as well as change the pan gasket and the pan filter.

The factory calls for RTV sealant on the trans pan, and they do this for a reason. Most DIYers use cork or composite gaskets, I did myself. However, I have discovered in mine that the pan and gasket only hold their seal for about 2 years. Then the gasket shrinks, or the bolts get loose enough, that it starts leaking. Once you see it start to leak then retorque. RTV would not have this problem. Since I change my own oil I am underneath the engine every 3000 miles and so I am able to catch small leaks like this before they turn major.

The method I documented on the website above gets all of the fluid.

If it was rebuilt then the seals were replaced and are of newer material. But you aren't required to use ATF+4 on your vehicle. ATF+3 is about a quarter of the price and is available from retail, while ATF+4 is only available from the dealer, so that made my decision for me.

The two ATF+'s are of the same frictional coefficient.

Get the TCM flashed and then change the fluid.

Ted

I agree with Ted, but three additional comments:

Make sure you clean the pan completely while you have it off. You will be amazed at the amount of crud that accumulates there. I use brake cleaner after I have wiped it out completely and scraped off all the old RTV gasket material. Also, clean the magnet completely at the same time and then reinstall in the same place.

Second, don't bother with using a cork gasket. The dealer sells a composite metal and silicone gasket for these transmissions. It is a bit pricey, but is re-usable up to three times and I have not had mine leak when all bolts have been torqued to the specified 165 inch pounds.

Third, I use ATF+4 from the dealer, but purchase it in the gallon container as it is cheaper. If you search you can find a web dealer that sells at discount. I have used Galeana Chrysler Jeep in SC. Compare to local dealer prices and ask what volume will get you a discount and how much.

Bob

Lots of really good advice removed.

Whoops, you used a franchised transmission chain. These places specialize in deciding that transmissions with minor problems need expensive total rebuilds. These expensive total rebuilds are always charged for, but frequently not actually done. You should have taken the car to a competent independent transmission diagnostician first.

, searchable used auto parts nationwide. Get a '95 or newer TCM.

Yes.

That's why you should get the newer one, with the finned case, which can be flashed.

No. Call Cottman's and ask, but most of those places use a universal fluid with additives claiming (but failing) to convert the universal fluid into the right stuff.

with 58,000

specialize

expensive total

for, but

a competent

'95 or

which can

proper ATF+3

universal fluid

fluid into

I did not take the car, the previous owner did to Cottman and was most unhappy. So you're right. $2000 for the rebuilt then another $700 for parts, pumps, not rebuilt right, in 2000. I suspect the TCM or EATXII or whatever they call that Transmission Computer Module was not upgraded. It still has the rough shift around 37 mph, the notorious shudder. After a tune-up, it's better. The distributor had a corroded wire which probably screwed up everything electrical. The tune-up, which I did not ask for, just get the start problem, the original distributor wire, was $341, which I thought was expensive and was something I used to do, tune-ups. But the tranny is working much better, the shudder is down about 90%.

So now for the software upgrade and the fluid change. I have not been able to get through to Cottman on the phone. But I can see the conversatio now - back in 2000 what fluid did you put in and did you upgrade the computer? Probably no to both. Nothing on the original bill about anything with a computer.

Thanks for your response.

around.

you

to have

Read about that wire #49, so thanks, not my problem. Have found thanks to Daniel Stern, some yards that have it for $25 to $35 and may be near me in case I do not use my original one. Tempted to have the dealer do the flashing and resetting the computer but found the method in allpar or somewhere else for resetting the TCM after the upgrade. Maybe the main computer too?

Refinements Manual

trans

require

one edge.

Thanks, found it, see the fins and checked the TSB's and the part number and it's flashable.

R4686478AA 04686606 93-94 A,C,J,P,S,Y 3.0, 3.3 & 3.8 from the TSB, above is the remanufactured part and software upgrade from the dealer. I have the "S" Voyager model which probabl is the "AS" model in 1995 that you recommended for the TCM.

4686131 was the original part number but I can't read it. Probably on the metal tag and I don't want to take it off the firewall just yet.

to

together.

They probably thought I meant the reverse power flush only. They could have mentioned the ordinary flush. It's similar to their fluid change which uses the tranny's pump. I just want the fluid out of there. Okay the torque converter is sealed but still.

Hmmm, thinking, if I push the OD button and disconnect the OverDrive, might that help the torque converter by disconnecting the lockup? Don't know, just a thought. Read one fellow who did it with soldering and tinkering. In any case, the 37 mph shudder is not the lockup situation which probably occur at highway speeds.

uses a

business when

clean. There

to jam it up.

That's very helpful. Dealer said not necessary if 30,000 miles. But this is a rebuilt and questionable and probably worth the extra expense.

fluid.

Even the torque converter too? Sounds like a good method. I have used that in the past so familiar with the siphoning. Just don't have the confidence and a garage now with ramps but I am thinking about it.

material.

But it's Cottman, so my confidence is low having seen how they charged the previous owner at least $2700 and that owner, my friend, was still most unhappy with the performance of the van. Rebuilt in 2000 but not leaking, still don't like some of the feel and subtle sounds of the tranny. So have been babying the car. There's the slight shudder at 37 mph and at 70 mph, hear a slight whine. Does not sound quite normal. Now I have had Chrysler trannies that whined for 130,000 miles. I drove Chrysler trannies that ran dry, DRY!, put in fluid, and the thing was up and running so in the past, they built stuff that was tanklike. Everything else came apart, the body, the electrical system, everything but loved those slant-6's and their trannies.

Thanks for the excellent advice and taking the time to go into all these details, most kind of you, especially the good advice, get the TCM done FIRST and see if it affects anything. If not, then some have gotten a quieter, shudder-free tranny with just a fluid change. Mine is quiet at the moment with just a touch of shudder at 37 mph after a tune-up where the distributor wire was shot and screwing things up electrically all over.

Resetting the TCM and flash-updating it are two different things.

Don't. Let the dealer do that if they need to when you have them flash-update it.

Yes.

No the torque converter is not sealed. Fluid is pumped into and out of it. If it was sealed the fluid inside it would overheat.

No. Don't do that.

You probably have Dexron+Lubeguard not ATF+3 in there.

Yes.

Look again at how much space they had to work with. The FWD layout is not optimal. The trans is crammed into the engine compartment. I'm all for newer materials and such but there' s no substitute for meaty, beefy, thick components. And there is no space for that in a FWD. So, they try to get around the lack of space by making everything thinner out of fancy materials. Sometimes it works, other times it don't.

Ted