Neon AC compressor cycling

Really? Here are some stats for Green Bay, which last I knew was in Wisconsin and is reputed to be pretty cold. The average high temp in the coldest month (January) is 24 F. Since this is an average, it is rather likely that several days even in January are well above 24 degrees, especially since the record high is 50 for this month. Even taking the high value you gave for compressor cut out (30 F), this means that there would likely be several opportunities even during the coldest month for the compressor to be operated. The next coldest months average 29 for a high, so it should be really easy to run the AC a couple of times a month during December and February.

What data do you have that supports your assertion above that it is

*always* below the compressor lockout temperature for months at a time in the seven states you list above? I realize I'm combining your statement with another poster's, but you basically refuting his statement, so this is what you are claiming. I haven't checked Alaska yet, and I suspect your claim does hold in many areas there, but I don't think it holds in the other six states you mention.

Decided to take a minute and check Anchorage. Guess what? It isn't much colder than Green Bay.

Matt

No - I was just giving you a hard time.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Nice, very nice.... The "taps" in Clarences Chrysler designed ballast resistor equipped primary ignition circuit are where, do what, for what purpose?

This whole thing is about a simple series circuit with two resistive loads, there are no "taps" anywhere to anything.

Nice, very clearly shows voltage dividing circuits, but they in no way resemble anything like a primary ignition circuit with two resistors in a simple series circuit.

Same again... Doesn't resemble in any manner a primary ignition circuit.

Same thing, no resemblance.

Getting redundant.

Very redundant.

Still no similarity to a very basic, very simple two resistor series circuit that was/is being claimed to be a voltage divider. Have I mentioned that this is all quite redundant, and so far off the target that it borders on the ridiculous?

Wow, a voltage divider -rule-. Too bad that circuit shown is not the same as the five previous voltage dividing -circuits- that you gave urls for. Or, put another way; if this is in fact a voltage dividing circuit, where are the "taps" mentioned in the dictionary url that you cited above, and the "taps" -shown- in the other five diagrams?

Okay, so we're blowing nice dry outside air that may or may not have been heated. We need to run the AC compressor for what reason again?

In other words, you weren't aware that there -is- a temperature below which it would run.

Well, if you aren't here, then you must be somewhere else.

Okay, so you lack experience with cold climates, I don't. This all easily explains why you have developed misconceptions WRT AC compressor behavior in winter climates. Simply stated, based upon the climatic conditions that you are used to, it is reasonable to believe that at your rarely below 30 degree conditions, you would be running the defroster on a fairly frequent basis, all of which makes the feel good notion of running the AC in winter time to protect the system and keep everything lubed rather pointless since it's going to happen anyway given the winter conditions you're most familiar with.

Well if the electoral college carried any arguing points, you'd actually have something valid here, but last time I checked, these states are still inhabited by human being who do drive automobiles and (hot damn) have internet access.

Well that would be nice if it were, but the thing is, I'm just stating plain simple facts that can be easily verified. Drop the Putney complex, there is no argument here, it's just a simple fact of life. If you don't want to learn anything, it's no skin off my nose. If your ego is so fragile that you can't bear to be corrected, that's between you and your therapist.

"Pretty sure?" Might, maybe, shoulda, woulda, coulda?

Then there are people who actually -drive- the car down the road. What do you suppose happens to the underhood temperature then?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that if the outside air is already dry, there is no point in dehumidifying it to begin with?

Wisconsin, 25 miles north of Milwaukee, 2 miles west of Lake Michigan. Ever hear of 'lake effect snow'?

Right... I've stood outside in 28* below zero weather with a windchill colder than minus 100* watching Milwaukee firemen try to put out a fire where the water froze as it came out of the fire hose nozzle. I've been in ice storms that killed the power for over two weeks. I've walked out on the ice when Lake Michigan froze solid. I've jumped the ice heaves on Lake Winnebago many times in an automobile.

No Matt, you're right, nothing we get here could compare to those

+30* blasts that you get on occasion.

Yup, I see it every winter when there's a sudden cold snap before the lakes and other bodies of water have had a chance to freeze, a nice eerie fog hanging above the water. Do I need to tell you that it's not advisable to venture out on the water in your car?

Yup, usual winter conditions for Lake Michigan, but then we know not to attempt driving on it when it's still in its liquid state.

Really? What did I post that was incorrect? Bear in mind that those number came from a Ford Motor Company website.

Well, there would be considerable moisture -somewhere- in the air, but odds are in my favor that you won't find cars driving around up there.

Twist? I'm just trying to determine what exactly 90+inches of snowfall per year has to do with defogging the inside of a windshield.

There (apparently) is no need for you to guess.

Jesus, I hope that wasn't your best shot.

Won't be in the manual of a vehicle of that vintage - but try a mid seventies and it will be there. Sixties too. On the 95 and 98 vehicles the AC is operated by the defrost so the oil gets circulated at least once in a while.

And how long will the R-134A stay at 20 degrees F under the hood of an operating vehicle???? Not too long where I come from. And it gets a heck of a lot colder than 20F.

6288 feet is possible in the eastern US. On August 21st is the "climb to the clouds" race. The location? The Mount Washington Auto Road in New Hampshire.

Generally I fly lower than that.

Here, let's use PC Medic's definition;

See the word "tap?" See the word "available?" See how they are used together?

Where is the "tap" in a ignition primary circuit? Where is this available circuit tapped to? Connected in series ain't "tapped."

Does the term 'center tapped transformer' ring a bell?

Or did Clarence and Bill forget to mention that the condenser is shorted? Nope, can't be because he was speaking specifically about a ballast resistor.

No? Not in all cases - but that's why I recommended you use TWO meters. Where does the voltage the coil does not see go? Draw the diagram. Draw the diagram of a voltage devider. Make R1 (coil) .95 volts ( spec is .89 to 1.03) and R2 (ballast)1.2 (spec is 1.08 to 1.32)

Compare results to those you get with the volt meters., Yup - it's a voltage devider. You can call it anything else you like - don't change anything.

Where it shows exactly what occurs with the coil/ballast. Good greif -Charley Browne - the dumb buggers can't even read a picture book.

I donno -- have we heard his answer yet as to the max altitude attainable in a flying Neon?

Yup, that can happen if you sit and idle the engine long enough creating an envelope of warm air in proximity to the low pressure switch and/or evaporator temperature switch. Of course during the winter, there are usually all manner of warning against doing such things due to the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning (it's not just for garages anymore), so I fail to see how this actually proves anything you've said or disproves anything that I've said, or resembles anything that a intelligent person would do, not to mention that -most- people actually drive their car down a street or highway to get somewhere.

I've already told you.. Something just under 6288 feet in the eastern US. In addition, Washington Highway #542 (Mount Baker) is 5140 feet at Artist's point (for the western US)

If you care to take your Neon to Kashmir, the highest motorable road in the world is in the Khardungla Pass, Kashmir, India. At its highest point it climbs to an altitude of 5,682 m (18,640 ft). It was completed in 1976 by the Border Roads Organization, New Delhi, and has been open to motor vehicles since 1988. The Khardungla pass is one of the three passes on the mountainous Leh to Manali road route.

In Europe, you can climb to 2822 meters in Andora, on the highest road in the Pyrennes (Port d' Envalira), or in Austria, at Ötztaler Gletscherstraße you can drive the highest paved road in the alps at

2822 meters. In France at La Bonette you can drive to 2,802m . In Germany, at Roßfeldringstraße-Kehlsteinstraße: 1720m In Italy, Passo dello Stelvio, at 2,758m is the Highest Paved Road Pass in Italy, and Tre Cime di Lavaredo, at 2,320m is theHighest Paved Road Pass in the Dolomites Pico Veleta (Sierra Nevada), at 3,375m is the Highest Road in Europe. That is rougly 10,970 feet.

Not saying a Neon has driven any of these roads, other than the Mount Washington and Mount Baker roads (which I am reasonably sure they have) but the point is, it is VERY possible to drive a car on a road a lot higher than most private recreational pilots will fly their Spam-cans.

It's obvious that they're recommending to do this -before- you store the vehicle. making certain that lubricating oil has been circulated thruout the entire system in anticipation of the period of no use. Ever hear of fogging a chain saw or 2 stroke lawn mower before you store it?

Clouds and airframe icing has what to do with a vehicle driven (presumably) at ground level? Should we all be using AvGas in our cars for the same reasons that it's used in airplanes?

Gee Matt, if I douse someone with gasoline and start them on fire, is there any point in sitting them down in front of a roaring fire in the fireplace so that they can warm up?

Wake up, smell the coffee. If the dew point of the ambient air is low, there is little to be gained by running the air conditioner in an attempt to dehumidify it more. I don't care about how many sweaty hockey players are changing their jock straps in your back seat.

Why do they call winter the cold and flu season? Because the air is so much dryer causing mucous membranes to dry out and crack which allows certain nasty bugs to invade where they'd normally not be able to invade.

Why does/did carb icing only occur in a fairly narrow temperature range? Because below that temperature range, the ambient air can not hold enough moisture to allow ice crystals to form in the presence of a pressure drop (venturi), above that temperature, even though the air can hold enough moisture, the ambient temperature is high enough that there will not be sufficient temperature drop when the pressure is dropped in the venturi.

So Matt, being 'fairly certain" as you state, exactly how many air conditioning systems have you diagnosed and fixed in your career? Also, I'm curious as to exactly how many hours of formal training you've had on the subject of automotive air conditioning.

I know, I know, you're going to claim non-sequitur or some such since a very large part of this is stuff that was/should have been covered in sixth grade science class.

If I'm a pig, please explain why it is that out of all of the URLs that PC Medic posted describing and diagraming voltage dividing circuits, not a single one diagramed a simple series circuit, and the only one that -did- have a simple series circuit showed it for the simple purpose of explaining voltage dropped and how a voltage drop is applied to a voltage dividing circuit.

Then there's the dictionary URL PC Medic gave that specifically contained the word "tap," could you please diagram for me a Chrysler primary ignition circuit and point out specifically where this voltage tap is that you and your gaggle claims exists? And since we're tapping voltage, please point out where it is that voltage is being tapped to.

Would you care to state "exactly" what the temperature range is where carb icing is "possible". If you can you are a better man than most, Gunga Din. I personally know of carb ice occuring at roughly 85 degrees F in Florida.(in an airplane) (with an automotive engine).- brought down a good friend of mine in a flaming wreck - which he (thankfully) survived. I also have personal knowlege of carb icing at -5F, in a car (1969 Dodge Dart 225) and at +15F on a '63 Valiant 170, at roughly 1040 ft ASL (ground level just outside Kitchener Ontario) Personally also experienced carb icing at roughly 4200 ft ASL (ground level) on a 1949 VW beetle in central Africa (Tonga Plateau, Zambia, October 1973) They call October suicide month, because the temperature can rise to 115F and stay there for days, with RH at the

100% point. Eventually, usually, it rains. On they day in question, on the plateau, it was roughly 85 degrees. Under the hood of the VW it was significantly warmer than that. Imagine, if you can, vapour lock and carb ice on the same day.