Yep, wouldn't be enough. I would need proof of his divinity, as would any thinking person.
One need not embrace one philosophy in order to reject another. I don't need to prove evolution in order to simply state there is no proof of the Bible's authenticity.
On a scale of one to ten, with ten being the most unprovable statement ever made, the above rates a thirty-six.
And your point?
Again, your point? Your replies are becoming increasingly dislexic. I have no hatred of Christians nor of Christianity. I have clearly stated that my hatred is towards hypocrites; if the hypocrite happens to be a Christian hypocrite then I hate the Christian hypocrite.
Lots of words describe me, most are obscene and I'll answer to most of them but spineless hypocrite ain't one of them.
Simply because man doesn't comprehend his own surroundings is not evidence of intellegent design. We know so little about the universe. However, things we take for granted today and are easily explained mystified those of centuries ago who credited the Gods for what they could not understand. I don't see the lack of mans scientific understanding of the universe as giving credibility to intellegent design.
Where have you seen archeological evidence of man and dinosaurs existing at the same time? They are millions of years apart.
I see little in the theories of evolution and the Big Bang Theory that go against the theory of creationism. One does not rule out the other. Again, what we don't understand is not evidence of anything. It just means we don't understand at this time. Many things that once were attributable to Gods are now explanable with modern knowledge.
Agreed, but yet Einstein (a non-believer) opened a doorway for a young Universe when he postulated about time not being constant.
Miles, many scientists today still can't explain the obvious, like the lack of signs of erosion in the stratified rocks outside my window, partially fossilized items in the outflow from Mt. St Helens.
I don't see it denying it, either.
Are they? Down in Texas are some artifacts and just south of Las Animas Colorado on the Purgatorie River are some I saw for myself. In one spot the foot prints overlap.
What about the discription of the Behemouth in the Book of Job? No Elephant, Hippo or Rhino fits that discription, but a Dinosaur does. How about the highly detaile depictions and discriptions of Dragons in so many cultures including the American Indina? Pterosaurs, maybe?
The Coleacanth was supposed to be extinct and hundreds have been caught. How often do you hear some program on TV talk about a "living fossil", unchangerd for"X" number of years??
Well, the First Law of Thermodynamics, for one. Then the big questions: Where did the Matter for the Big Bang come from? Where did the Energy for it come from?
The two are mutually exclusive. For example, the word translated "day" in Genesis is the Hebrew word "yom", it can only mean a literal 24 hour day.
Sorry, but it does.
What we don't understand is evidence that we do not know the truth about it yet. Theories are not facts, theories are not evidence. And to blindly accept a theory is the same as believing in a religion: it talkes faith.
Look around. The deformities of the so-called "Hobbits" in New Zealand could be explained by very extreme age as are the characteristics of the Neanderthal. The builders of the pyaramids still have modern scientists, engineers and their computers guessing how the pyramids were built, especially the ones in South and Central America where a dollar bill won't fit in the gaps.
Consider that I.Q. tests have to keep being recalibrated to maintain a percentage of geniuses. That more and more birth defects are showing up in families that are second and third cousins.
Man was genetically superior to what he is today. His mental abilities were greater. Consider the great scientist and doctors of ancient times; no computers, yet calculated the orbits of the planets, no X-ray but performed high quality successful brain surgery, no machines but built pyramids, no gunpowder, but figured out how to hurl a 100 pound rock 300 yards and bash in a fortress wall . . with locally available materials.
Looks like we disagree on a few things, but that's ok.
How Budd? Why can't the big bang or evolution all been by intellegent design?
Theories do have substantial evidence for why its a theory and not just a guess or a hypothesis.
I haven't seen much wonderning on that. It is well known where the limestone for the egyptian pyramids came from. There are questions as to what methods the egyptians used but theres nothing that mysterious that suggests some God built them. Some used to wonder how they aligned one wall with true north and not magnetic north. Thats pretty easy to explain. However, back then there were many Gods, and those religions existed for FAR longer than the current rather young Christianity. We are closer to Jesus' time than the egyptians.
Yep, we disagree on things but thats what makes people who they are. Pretty boring if everyone thought and lived the same way. While I disagree with many facists of modern religion I fully respect ones right to believe and live as they see fit.
Merry Christmas Budd (Yes, the Happy Holidays PC crap is just that!)
Ok, lets determine the attributes of God: Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, Holy, and perfect come to mind. "Intelligent Design" is a PC term. Anything, or anyone that could create the Universe would need to be God.
The Big Bang requires violating the First Law of Thermodynamics (a state of equilibrium) to occur, not to mention that most versions (yes, there are many theories) don't explain where the matter for the explosion or the energy for the explosion came from.
Now look at the contradiction: assume that God created the universe and took his sweet time (although God is outside of time as we know it) over a couple million years, then inspired men to write that it took six days . . . oops! A lie. God is no longer Holy and sinless . . .he is no longer god.
What is "substantial evidence"? A broken line of fossils gathered from a multi-square mile area? Fossils from supposedly different eras mixed in the same layer of sediment? A "reconstruction" of an entire skeleton from one tooth? 1000 vertical feet of sandstone layers, supposedly billions of years old and not one single spot in the entire valley that shows signs of erosion between the layers, not even in the Arches National Park area.
Creationists and evolutionists both have the same limited amount of evidence, but each starts with a different set of presuppositions;
Evolution: It's all by accident and took darn near forever and don't worry about the missing stuff or out of place stuff, we'll theorize it away.
Creationist: Since we don't have any evidence of transitional forms in the layers they're supposed to be in, then there are not likely to be any. Since so many things are missing, but it all fits the Biblical record . . .if it walks like a duck . . .
I've seen it since I was a kid in back in the 50's; It seem like just about every year they came up with some new idea of how they built the pyramids, from dirt ramps, slaves and two generations of construction to aliens came down and built them for a spaceport.
Sure, not that far away, but look at Stonehenge. Some of it's stone came from a long distance away.
Miles, I never said a god built them unless you want to allow for the Pharohs that did build tem claiming diety.
Yep. Not a problem at all.
How old are they? If you look at the Biblical timelines, those "old" religions are far younger than the Jewish faith which has it's roots with Adam and Eve (6000 - 8000 years). Among Creationists, all the other religions came after the tower of Babel, about 5000 years ago. Gee, that how old Hinduism claims to be . . .
"facists" (Fascism) A Freudian slip, my friend? I know you meant "facets". I thank you and I hope I can always show the same toward you.
Actually, I don't have a problem with it myself. Oh, I will continue to wish a "Merry Christmas" to everyone, but that, to me, is a part of my beliefs, that at this time of year I celebrate the birth of the one I call my Savior. If someone else wishes to use "happy Holidays" that's fine, but do they know the word "Holiday" was originally "Holy Day"???
Happy "'what ever you want to call it but for me it is Christmas"
What you fail to realize (no surprise) is that the claimed omnipotence of your god allows him (her) to toss aside the laws of physics. In order to believe in God one must accept his (her) omnipresence and, therefore, the belief that God is without beginning. If one can accept the notion that God has always existed, then it's just as easy to accept the notion that matter and energy has always existed.
You answered your own query; six days to your god might be 8 billion years to mortal man.
An item subject to the laws of physics cannot be equal to or greater than the Creator of those laws. Is a cookie greater than the cook?
No, I pointed out the error of believing God took millions of years. The word in Hebrew for "day" in the Book of Genesis is "Yom" and it can only be used to denote a 24 hour day. Everytime it is used in the OT it means only a 24 hour day.
Believe what you wish, John, and I'll believe what I wish. One of us will find out the other one was right, some day.
Merry Christmas.
Budd
"the most fervent devotees of tolerance are invariably intolerant of everyone who speaks about God with certainty." A.W. Tozer, Christian Apologist
Wait a sec. God is bound by the First Law of Thermodynamics? Budd, I'm not asking why Creationism makes more sense than Evolution etc. I'm asking why you think God didn't create the Big Bang or Evolution or any other theory that traditionally is opposite of Creationism. Maybe God created the Big Bang or Evolution.
So you really believe the earth and the universe is only 8,000 years old in terms of what we call a year?
Evolution can be proven to occur easily in plants. Meaning changing future generations based on stimuli. What you are saying to me is that since its so complex, since we understand so little about it, that it must have been done by God because we can't comprehend any other way. Thats the very reason people of centuries ago thought about things we can explain today. Just because we dont understand it doesn't lend credibility to Creationism.
Not so. It means we have a long ways to go to understanding. You are assuming that we do possess this knowledge. We know very little.
Since so many things are missing, but it all fits the Biblical
The bible doesn't explain many things Budd. Why the different races? Why did God invent disease (I know about the Bibles talk about suffering) but thats just evil to me. There is an endless list of things occurring in our world that the Bible does not explain at all. Why is there nothing written contemporary to Jesus time? Should have been well documented in his time for such a major event.
Name a civilization that practiced the Jewish faith 5,000 to 8,000 years ago. We have no evidence of such a culture but we do have evidence of the ancient egyptians, greeks and romans but they didn't practice anything remotely close.
Nope. He's outside both time and the laws of physics as we experience them.
I understand your question, and I'm trying to answer it.
If God had used the Big Bang and Evolution it would ruin His credibility. All the rest of the Bible could not be trusted at all.
Would you be interested in some links to Christian sites that have more information than I can put here?
Yep. Think about it; so many words and descriptions in so many ethnic groups for dragons (dinosaurs), for a huge ( if not global) flood ( Noah. The ancient Chineses language character for Flood is made up of the symblols for "eight people" and "boat")
So many groups have creation stories similar to Genesis, including the Greeks.
Has a kernal of corn grown into a rose? How about a transitional plant starting as corn that's 1/4 rose? The point is: like begets like, dogs have more dogs, fish have more fish. Adaption, otoh, is quite common and can be passed on from dog to dog, corn kernal to corn kernal.
Bacterium have life spans measured, in some species, in seconds and millions of divisions occouring weekly, yet they remain the same except for any adaptions to environment.
Sorry, but the Darwin Theory states that the mutations will be significant departures from the parent, a dog will whelp something not entirely dog and, THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, superior to dog. I can not find any evidence of a scientist, secular or Creationist that has ever found a positive mutation.
Nope, not at all. I'm saying, in the light of pure basic logic, the Creation record is more logical to have produced life as we know it on this toxic planet.
Think about the sheer odds AGAINST evolutionary success . . no Vegas gambler would take them.
Have we explained them? Or are we making guesses? There are no signs posted like in a museum of what each object was used for at these archaeological digs.
Just because we don't understand doesn't undermine Creation. :)
No, I'm not assuming any source of knowledge other than what's in the Bible and what has been dug up. Miles, the layers have been sifted and are still being sifted and the transitional fossils aren't there. Instead they're finding fossils that should not be in that undisturbed layer and revamping the dating to cover the discrepancy.
What different races? All the ethnic groups can intermarry and bear offspring so they are all the same species, Human Being. There is a great diversity of adaptions to the various regions of the earth, but they all carry the same genes as you and I.
That was Man's choice. At the Tower of Babel, as recorded in Genesis, the idea was to build a tower of mud brick high enough to be above any future floods, so God confused the tongues (languages). People naturally grouped together according to language and then wandered away from Babylonia. Over the centuries, adaption to climates took place.
God didn't. When He finished with the Universe, He said it was "good". Then He made Man and Woman and gave them freedom to chose to obey him and never die or they could choose to do wrong. Then Lucifer lied to the couple and convinced them to disobey God. That was when things went downhill.
Like what? Feel free to go to email if you want.
I'm not sure what you mean. The Crucifixion? His Birth? The Resurrection?
No problem, they were the ancestors of the Hebrews whose language has been handed down to the Hebrews with additions over the years from the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Germans, (just about everyone!) and is now the classic Hebreww and Yiddish of today. They worshiped the Three-in-One God, Elohim, who was the God of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Judah, David, Solomon and Mary. His names of the persons of the Triune Godf are YHVH, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, as we know them today.
No, they drifted away from what became the Jewish faith after the Tower of Babel.
Yes, we have records of those civilizations, but the civilizations you seek were lost in a global flood and their records with them. Their bones became fossils. softer materials, like cloth, leather, paper, etc. would have been destroyed. so we have no idea how far they progressed before the Flood . . .maybe that's where the legends of Atlantis come from.
Only if they can prove conclsively that the virus significantly changed into another viable form...iow, a new strain with large changes not normal to the genome and not merely an adaption to environment.
The key word for both of us is the biggest two letter word in the English language: "IF".
That's where Creationists and Evolutionists really differ: Evolutionists grasp at every little adaption in hopes of discovering conclusive proof of evolution, the "missing link", while Creationists only want what Darwin claimed, a major change in the genetic code . . .a dog whelping a pup that has primate like attributes, an opposable thumb, for example, to prove evolution, until then, Creation is more logical.
I was at Yahoo.com a while ago and saw in the news oddities a story about a Rainbow Trout caught in Nebraska with two mouths, one functional and one not funtional. It's a classic example of negative mutation because the lower mouth just sits there.
(Ok, gotta buy another coffee pot cause three ain't keeping up . . .maybe I'll get one for Christmas . . .and a pump to so I can keep it coming non-stop and . . . )
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