OT<<HybridS>>

Yup, I can hear a few leaving the tubes.

Make up your mind Miles. First you say that the economy is doing fantastic and everyone is making much more money and now you are saying that most cannot afford a few thousand more for a hybrid. It's either one way or the other Miles. The sad part is that the majority believe as you sadly do, that if it doesn't put more money in their pocket, screw it and the future.

Yea, I guess that fuel prices are where they will stay for the next 5 years, LOL!

Hahahahaha, more right wing spin. Sure, motorcycles currently do not have the emissions equipment that cars do and will have somewhat higher PPM counts than a car, they also (with the exception of the super bikes) put out way less volume than a typical car which also equates to less polution. This of course, means nothing because he was talking about hybrids and they have the same emissions equipment as any other car and put out way less volume so in this case, less fuel burned DOES directly equate to lower emissions.

Typical short sighted thinking. Saving fuel now will equate to savings over the long term because reduced demand for oil will hold the price lower over the long term (supply and demand).

Agreed but unlikely to happen. At least until it is way to late to do any good which is sadly the typical short sighted thinking method, much like global warming.

And as long as everyone feels this way, it will never happen.

It depends on the type of electric motor Miles. Brushless motors have few wear parts (the bearings) and with sophisticated control system, can be protected from burnout due to lockup andf overheating as well.

LOL, you are not taking into account the continuing increase in the price of fuel. I would say that fuel will be over $4.00 in the next two years.

20000/30 * $4/gallon = $2666

20000/50 * $4/gallon = $1600

Now the savings are $1066 a year and as the price increases so do the savings. Now the time required to make up the savings have reduced significantly not to mention the added benefits of reduced pollution and reduced dependency on foreign oil which could also serve to keep the price of oil down. It would also further increase the development on hybrid and zero emissions vehicles if the demand exists but short sighted thinkers which sadly are the majority on this country as of now will flush this great country down the toilet.

This really has to be just about the dumbest thing to come out of you so far. If a battery is no stronger than its weakest cell, then replacing that weak cell would restore the entire battery so why would you not want the ability to do that?

Not far from where I live (in Dallas), is the poorest community in the area. It's called Pleasant Grove. People live in shacks. Yet, they have a set of 24" rims and other mods on their 10 mpg car which cost them at least $5000.00.

So, miles, I *completely* disagree with your comment. It's simply not the case. Most people *do* have the money. It's a matter of priorities. Clean air and water take a back seat to big screen TV's, loud stereos and rims.

Now is the time for American car companies to take the market. If only they hadn't outsourced the talent and jobs to other countries ...

Well, we were discussing cars. Hybrid cars have the same emissions requirements as full combustion vehicles. Therefore, less fuel burned means fewer/lower emissions/pollution.

In fact, I read in the Dallas paper some time ago that the exhaust emitted from the tailpipe of the Prius was cleaner than the air it took in. Therefore, I supposedly cleans air.

Now, I don't know whether I fully believe that or not, but it is an interesting and alarming article. Interesting that the Prius is that clean. Alarming that Dallas air is that filthy.

Unfortunately, I agree. Most Americans are very short-sighted and selfish. This results in screwed up priorities. This is where our government can help make a difference.

Offering higher tax breaks for cleaner vehicles, both to the consumer AND the automobile company could bridge the gap.

I had not heard this. Where did you read it?

Well, there was an "okay" tax break in place. Bush has all but killed it at this point. However, I firmly believe that the next president, regardless of party affiliation, will be forced to kick up the tax incentives.

Right. It is the responsibility of those that know better to educate and be an example to those that do not.

So ... when are buying your new hybrid? :-)

True. However my point was that the reduced cost of maintenance added to the fuel savings and factoring in *something* for the hidden costs not only mitigates the extra cost of the hybrid option, but saves money. The unfortunate thing, as I mentioned earlier, is that most Americans are too distracted to notice or care.

I attended the car show a couple of months ago in Dallas. Hybrid Civic sitting next to a full combustion Civic had smaller tires. A Prius has

*tiny* tires. Very cheap to replace. There really is nothing to compare it to except the Yarus.

Craig C.

I understand they are dropping the accord and keeping the civic

I had read and heard that. I have only seen ONE Hybrid Accord on the road. My uncle owns it. In contrast, the Hybrid Civic is selling like hotcakes down here! I see them all over. Prius is still more popular, but that is a matter of marketing and could be remedied if Honda wanted.

I also read that Honda plans to have a clean-diesel version of the Fit in 2009.

Craig C.

Well.... maybe..... before y'all jump on the hybrid bandwagon, a visit to this website might prove illuminating...

As in all the hype about global warming, things aren't always as they seem.....

(sound of worm can opening)

Mike

Oh geez. You'll find a liberal reason to argue about anything!! The economy is doing very well. You can't show me a dang thing to prove otherwise can you? Oh ya, you know someones neighbors, brothers uncle that is having problems in your area...sorry, I forgot!

Sorry TBone, the vast majority of people who buy hybrids do so thinking they will save money. Their sales have gone up as the price of gas has gone up which equated to higher demand for economy cars in general. So how many hybrid cars have you bought lately to do your part? Oh ya, you own a gas guzzler truck along with those hybrids!!

WRONG TBone. Motorcycles put out more pollution per mile that a typical car. Not PPM. Do some research before making more un-researched off the top of your head guesses.

I never mentioned global warming. You own that one. That subject is multi-faceted and under constant change. You debate it. I know what I believe and I'll leave it at that for now.

:-) Craig C.

How many Hybrids do you own Tom? How many gas guzzlers? You're all talk TBone. Typical liberal telling others what they should do but don't do themselves. Just like Kerry touting economy cars but drives his Dodge 300C (oh ya, its his wifes) or Al Gore who touts environmentalism and gets a speeding ticket in a gas guzzler 4 door lincoln. All talk about what others should do!

If all other cells were perfect. Odds are thats just not the case. You might buy yourself a little time but not much.

Sorry Miles, but the economy is doing well for those who already were doing well. Perhaps it is you that needs to do a little research.

Do you have proof to back this up? My wife wants one and her concern is the planet, not saving a few cents on fuel.

Lets see some factual data to back this load of crap up and even then, it still doesn't matter as it was in relation to a hybrid that has the same emissions equipment as a conventional car.

If they are poor they didn't buy a hybrid to save the environment. They mistakingly bought it thinking they'll save money on gas. People are in a frenzy about the cost of gas and just don't add up other expenses.

They didn't for the most part. The design teams are in the USA. So are the design teams for Nissan and Toyota.

To an extent thats true. People have always tried to save money where they can. So lets see, $7000 towards a hybrid or $7000 towards the kids college fund for example. So to be 'Green' should Americans just pay the extra $7000 for a clean car? Hmm...that money goes to the greedy corporate auto manufactures.

My mistake. Honda is dropping the Accord Hybrid. Toyota is talking about dropping the Camry hybrid as well.

True but if a Dem is elected you'll see that erased by higher taxes. Their very first action taken when they gained control of congress was to change the way taxes are raised. It now takes only a simple majority instead of 2/3's congress to pass a tax increase bill.

I traded in my 2001 Ram QC for a Dodge Caliber. Went from 12mpg to

28mpg. Not as good as a hybrid but far lower cost. I'm doing my part!!

None yet.

One but I don't have much choice right now.

More spin and bullshit. While I don't currently own one, I'm not trying to talk people out of doing the right thing when they can, unlike you. When I need to purchase a new vehicle, fuel economy will be a big issue and not just for the few cents a week it might save me. What about you?

What engine does his 300C have? As for Al, I have no idea what he own or how he lives his life but he does make every effort to let people know what can happen if nothing is done. I guess that its better to stick you head in the sand and pretend that it doesn't exist like others in the group. Yea, that's gonna help your kids in the future.

nope, I ain't goin there either ;^). I just used that as an analogy...

Mike

Which means what? Is the economy doing well for the vast majority or not? Unemployment is down, new jobs rate is increasing, the median income is rising which means the new jobs are not low end. So please tell me what data source you have that says the economy has worsened. Show me the numbers TBone. Put up, or shut up.

Oh ya, just like your figures that say the economy is bad, unemployment is bad all based on a few people you know. Good grief! Now go buy that Hybrid. Why haven't you already since you talk about how we all need to help the environment.

In responce to Mike Simmons 's post. I thought everyone should know:

CHICKENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

I've said it before and i'll say it again......of course we are in a state of global warming and have been since the last ice age....THERE!

Figures.

Not so. You made the choice in what you need. Nobody made the choice for you. You own a gas guzzler and no Hybrid but you whine that people need to buy hybrids to save the enviroment. Put up or shut up Tom!

I think people should buy economy cars. When buying cars in general people have always looked to get the most for their money. I bought a Dodge Caliber and got rid of my gas guzzler Ram. What have you done yourself?

I already did what you only talk about. My truck was paid for. My car has a payment. The gas savings won't pay for the cost of my Caliber. What about you Tom? All talk.

True he does say that. But he lives a high style polluting life, owns gas guzzler cars, lives in a huge mansion that sucks up power, uses a massive fuel guzzling polluting jet for much of his transportation needs...typical liberal, all talk about what others should do and not them.