Removing transmission

LOL, helium always has mass and that point cannot be argued but does it always have weight? By the following definition:

1. The quality of being heavy;

that property of bodies by which they tend toward the center of the earth; the effect of gravitative force, especially when expressed in certain units or standards, as pounds, grams, etc.

Lets break this down to its components

1. The quality of being heavy;

It is not heavy, actually, it is lighter than air.

that property of bodies by which they tend toward the center of the earth;

It actually moves (is pushed) away from the earth

the effect of gravitative force,

Which is counteracted and negated by the forces of the atmosphere

especially when expressed in certain units or standards, as pounds, grams, etc.

Find me a scale that can weight it without resorting to artificial means such as containment or being in a vacuum.

Sounds like the point of weight can be debated to me but even at that, the fact that you had to resort to a completely off topic argument just shows that you are completely out of gas in your failing hydraulic argument and I'll just claim my victory now. Have a good day Maxi.

I never said that it was unaffected, I said that on the surface of this planet, the force of gravity is negated by the force of the atmosphere pushing it back up and therefore, it has no weight. Perhaps I should have said measurable weight but for that light conversation, it doesn't matter. And you should be the last one to talk with your theory that an object in freefall has no weight. If it had no weight, it would not fall, pretty much like helium :-)

Back to the unfounded accusations again? Care to back this statement up? This is degrading quickly and this time, it is not me doing it.

Yes they do. The equal and opposite reaction part. Unless something is resisting the system venting pressure to the reservoir, it cannot apply pressure to the slave cylinder.

The difference here Budd is that this is an obvious attack that you just admitted to (so much for your word). I did not do this and I cannot help it if you seem to still be a bit paranoid and are looking for me to attack you. The funny thing about that is if you are really looking for it, you will find it, even if it doesn't really exist and in reality Budd, when I did attack you in the past, I was far from subtle about it so if I was attacking you now....

And you formulated this conclusion, how????????

Exactly, and air in the system is not it, at least not it alone. At best, it could be a contributing factor and there was no claim by the OP that it was there at all.

And which is more compressable?

It was not a comment Budd, it was more of a question. Let me rephrase it for you, do you really think that you know more about everything or even everything mechanical than I do?

It is not just me, it is also John, Marsh Monster and flip flop Max. There is also nobody jumping in to say that I am wrong and as made obvious with the re-introduction of the helium crap by Maxi and Tom, people in here don't seem to waste the opportunity to try and tell me I'm wrong at the first possible convenience.

LOL, where did you fabricate this from? I don't recall ever arguing about the operation of a diff and I knew how they worked since I was about 12 (basics Budd, not every possible design). I was also in the business for a few years, not months, and made enough money to put myself through school. Does that mean that I know everything, of course not but if it makes you feel better to think that, knock yourself out. I would be careful with this course however because if you get into an argument with me and I am right, that will make you appear to know less than nothing.

It was not a joke.

Not true Budd. You are heading down that same old road as we did in the past and are trying to drag me with you. The insults have already started on your side and you are also accusing me of doing the same but but I have not and just saying that you are incorrect on a particular subject is not insulting you. If I started calling you names or questioning your intelligence like Marsh Moster did while saying it then I would be insulting but I have yet to do that and like I said, that is a road that I will not travel with you again.

Prove it wrong then Budd and saying that you saw it is not proof of anything. Explain how it could possibly happen without some other problem allowing the pressure to build and if you can't do that then explain how that other problem that allowed the pressure to build is not the real problem.

I know it is.

He is not arguing it, he said that it probably wasn't what you thought that it was and he is correct. Unless something is preventing the excess pressure from being vented back into the reservoir, the condition you described could not happen, simple laws of motion there. You did say that forklift delt with major damage before you got it and some of that damage may be in the clutch master or its linkage preventing it from venting the pressure buildup due to thermal expansion. The fact that the clutsh system was full of air shows that some damage occured there or in the area of it. Your bleeding the system may have solved the problem of expansion to the pont of slipping the clutch, but it was probably still happening enough to put excessive pressure on the TO bearing that would have been noticed if you had it for longer than a few months.

Did you ever hear of a self fulfilling prophecy? If you are determined to see me insulting you, it will happen even if I am totally unaware of it and never intended to do so. I cannot help this and the only one who can is you.

Once again, the trapped air, by itself, couldn't cause that problem; the trapped air had to be in an otherwise malfunctioning system. If you are as knowledgeful of the system as you claim to be, you would realize entrapped air could only cause a problem in a system whose return port was plugged.

Bullshit!!! A system that works as advertised is by definition perfect but, if by your definition, a system has to be incapable of malfunctioning then there is no perfect system.

Your mistake was and still is claiming that bleeding air from the forklift system "fixed" the problem. Since a malfunction other than air entrappment had to exist, merely bleeding the system wouldn't eliminate the root problem.

It seems that others question your credibility. No surprise.

OK, Scotty, answer this; if the system is open to the reservoir, are you still claiming that the expansion of heated trapped air would apply the TO bearing rather than merely push the fluid into the reservoir? If YES, explain the phenomenon in physical terms. Don't be afraid to get real technical.

Would one of those "odd things" be a blocked return port? If so, why not just say that and end the debate? If the "oddity" is something else give a hint of what it might be.

Tom, any time you put down a person's experiences or knowledge, you degrade them and you did it first.

Wrong law of physics, Tom. Newton wasn't involved in this one, Bernoulli was, pressure is exerted equally in all directions.

But here's one for you to explain: Robert Goddard is recognized as a developer of modern rocketry, especially, liquid fuel rockets. In his early experiments, the engines blew up, not the tanks, the engines. Now, since there's this big old hole in the back, why did they blow up?

As I said, degrade a person's experience or skill and you insult them.

Nope, no paranoia. I have no fear of you.

And you were not subtle at all when you put down my skills and experiences.

-- Budd Cochran

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My brother's 12 foot yacht displaces a mass of water equal to it's weight,

165 pounds, therefore, it has no weight when on the lake?

The boat still masses and weighs 165 pounds on this planet because even out in the middle of the lake it gravity attracts it.

Helium's mass is higher than that of Hydrogen, so it has weight in a gravity well. Gravity, although minutely, attracts all masses together..

-- Budd Cochran

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And if you had been there you wouldn't be questioning my veracity. The fluid was as clean as it was from the brake fluid container.

Whatever. Your mind is closed tighter than a bear trap.

-- Budd Cochran

WARNING!!!

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Like I said and Scott has said, you weren't there, unless you were working at Arvin Industries, Inc. 1000 N. Hurricane, Franklin, Indiana, 46131 in

1972 on the night shift maintenance crew doing forklift repair / maintenance.

Were you?

-- Budd Cochran

WARNING!!!

Poster still believes that intelligence, logic,

common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs

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Sorry, but no. I didn't put you down in any way, I simply said that you were wrong in this instance. Now if you take that as a putdown, then there is no point discussing anything with you because a childish attitude like that is incapable of discussion. But if we use your current definition of things, I simply said that air alone could not cause the type of failure that the OP said happened and I wasn't even responding to you, I was responding to Max. You then jumped in and made the claim that it could happen and I was wrong using your forklift example, which by YOUR current definition, put down my experience and knowlege so again, who did it first?

Ok, then if the master cylinder is operating properly, how would the expanding gas build pressure on the master cylinder side? Remember, the pressure must be equal on all sides or it will flow toward the path with the least resistance which means away from the slave and into the master.

First of all, we are talking about explosive expansion here due to combustion. Do you really think that the gas is expanding that quickly or with anywhere near that much volume in a hydraulic clutch assembly????? I hate to say this Budd but now you really are starting to make yourself sound like an idiot and this is not a lame revenge insult, it is an honest opinion and if you really think about it, you should see where I am comming from. As for the rocket, do you not consider these early failures defective engines and in the successful ones, what happens in the chamber the second the fuel is cut off.

I did no such thing and I can't help it if you take it that way. You are not always going to be right Budd, no matter how much experience you may have and it takes a real man to admit that they don't know everything and admit to being wrong every now and then. I thought that you were that kind of man, am I wrong?

I never said that you did and why would you?

experiences.

I was not subtle because I had no reason to be. I didn't attack you, I said that you were wrong here, big difference.

Sorry Budd, but that is an old thread and while it was fun back then, it is done now. BTW, 12 foot, 165 lbs, and yacht don't really go together :-) and the boat will still have the same mass no matter where it is and once that boat is buoyant :-)

First, it's not "my" theory. Secondly, it appears that the physics professors over at MIT agree with this theory:

No, Tom.... it falls because gravity acts upon it. Gravity acts upon it because it has MASS. As I explained once before, you can calculate the weight of an object under acceleration as follows:

Weight is the product of mass times (gravitational acceleration - the acceleration of the mass).

Not to change the subject, boys, but I just finished bottling a batch of Red Ale. Three weeks and it'll be tipping time! There's more to life than arguing with those that will never agree with you! ;) Cheers!! HD

Funny, I don't see where I said no effect. I said that gravity does not have enough force to hold it down against ut upward force of our atmosphere, not exactly the same thing but feel free it spin it as you see fit.

And other professors say other things, that is why it is called a theory.

And it has weight for the same reason if you define weight purely as the force of gravity acting on a mass (W = MG) as many do..

LOL, really??? This looks more like the equation for G-force. Either way, who cares and what does it have to do with the topic at hand. Does it really bother you this much when I am right about something that you have to jump in with this old crap, how sad.

You did.

Now here's what I was trying to show you and John, exactly, but you both kept up with the arguments that I was wrong, unskilled, inexperienced and a liar.

The system was a new rebuild; master, slave, line, fluid. The port was uncovered, I could see it thru the new, crystal clear brake fluid and when the pedal was pressed fluid escaped from it as indicated by the rippling of the fluid surface.

And the system was causing slippage until I bled the air out . . .the only work I did on it. No adjustments, no parts replacement other than a quart of brake fluid.

Now, you figure it out.

WRONG!!!! even in rocketry, you DO NOT want explosions anywhere. Rapid burning, yes, explosions, no.

No.

And if you could see what I'm saying you wouldn't be insulting me. It's a parallel, a extreme parallel, but nevertheless, a parallel. In both instances, the same laws apply.

And the cause was from the gases not being able to get out fast enough. Goddard had the throat too small.

The point I'm trying to get thru to you, Tom, is that you claim that there's no way air could cause clutch trouble, and I say there is. The rocket throws your claim that as long as there is an exit, pressure cannot build up right out in the trash.

No, I am that kind of man and I have admitted to errors WHEN I AM WRONG. In this case, I am not. The problem is that my experience was outside of what you can accept as happening. To you and John, that makes me a liar.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong on all counts.

Look up the definition paranoia, Tom, then learn the English language. You have a problem of not writing what you mean.

No, you degraded my skills and experience again.

-- Budd Cochran

WARNING!!!

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common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs

are still important in our society, and might include

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Really? Don't go together, huh? You've weighed the boat? Tell us when you did it so we can turn you into the cops for trespass.

And the thread hasn't finished yet, we both replied to it, right?

Now back to "mass" . . .so you do understand that Helium has mass and is affected / attracted by gravitation. But I see you backpedaled again to Tom L.

Why couldn't YOU have said, " I was wrong" instead of the poor excuse for trying to cover your butt?

-- Budd Cochran

WARNING!!!

Poster still believes that intelligence, logic,

common sense, courtesy, and religious beliefs

are still important in our society, and might include

them in his posts.

Nah, not pit bulls. But I can think of a couple of more fitting examples.

Roy