Better yet, see if it stars with a boost. If it does you know it is
battery related - bad battery, poor charging system, bad conections,
ets. If it doesn't, you know it is something else.
Why did you change the starter? just a
"throw money at it guess" or was there definitely a starter problem.
Having it start after a time with the key on accessory sure points to
a bad connection, to me as a semi-retired mechanic.
Starter went out forgot to say bought new battery , nothing. Also changed
starter relay back when got new starter.
I read it could be grounding wire. I am old lady, don't knowmuch about cars but
willing to learn. Love my car, mostly when it runs. It runs good. Where would a
bad connection be? The battery?
It should not be a grounding wire. The starter has a steel case that is
bolted to the cast iron block that is grounded to the frame that is has the
battery ground cable connected to it. There is no ground for the battery,
there is only a voltage supplied.
You are describing a dead or weak battery.
On Mon, 25 May 2015 11:01:47 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
The engine is mounted to the frame with rubber motor mounts and MOST
DEFINITELY requires a ground cable. On virtually every ford I've
worked on (hundreds at a very minimum) there is a DIRECT ground cable
from the battery to the engine block, and a ground cable from the
block to the body or frame -and often a light guage body ground cable
also connected directly to the negative battery terminal.
Engine ground problems on fords are not at all uncommon - and the
moveable shoe pre-engage type starters used on Fords for many years
are very sensitive to low voltage - whether from a low battery
voltage, or voltage drop on poor connections
A bad engine ground is not the cause of starting problems. It can be a
problem in lots of areas. There is no ground for the starter. There is a
ground for the entire engine, but the engine is bolted to the bell housing
that is bolted to the transmission that is bolted to the...
The engine, even with no dedicated ground is grounded well enough for the
starter to turn.
WITHOUT KNOWING THAT THE BATTERY IS GOOD, NOTHING WILL HELP WITH THE
STARTER. If the battery is KNOWN GOOD, then other things can be chased down.
But the head of the list is the battery, and a reasonably good battery test
is to use jumper cables. If jumper cables cure the immediate problem, then
the battery is the problem 99% of the time.
First things first.
You are describing a problem that comes from a weak battery and a
problematic ignition switch.
There is no logical reason why the key would need to be set to ON or ACC for
any length of time before you could turn to START. Now that all you get is a
clicking sound when the key turned to START, then you are fighting a dead
You can confirm this by connecting jumper cables to a donor car that is
running, waiting about 5 minutes to get a small charge going, then while
holding the donor car to about 1500 RPM, try to start your car. If it cranks
well, even if it does not start, then the battery is the problem.
On Mon, 25 May 2015 10:58:46 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
Jeff - a high resistance ground or power connection can be "warmed" by
running a low current through it for a few minutes - warming the
connection can cause the connection to temporarily expand and tighten
up - allowing the engine to start. Not common - but possible. Very
easy to eliminate the ignition switch as the problem by simply
jumpering battery voltage to the small terminal of the starter
solenoid. If it starts then and not with the switch - you have a
switch (or wiring to the switch - including the neutral start switch)
problem. If it still does not crank - look elsewhere.
Or the charging system - or the battery connections - since you are
bypassing them too when you use a "boost". I've seen WAY too many
batteries condemned for bad battery connections after being tested
exactly that way. Get a volt meter and look up "voltage drop testing"
and test it right.
I've been an auto mechanic and have done a lot of auto-electric
troubleshooting ever since 1969 (semi retired now - and in the
computer electronics business for quite a number of years.
The Engine Start circuits are not warmed when the key is set to ACC. The
entire point of ACC is to power stuff that has no relation to the Engine
Start stuff. So I repeat, there is no logic is setting the key to ACC for
any amount of time before you can start the engine.
I agree that the test of jumping the battery to the start relay will isolate
the ignitins switch. My instinct is that the OP is several layers of
aptitude below that.
I also think the issue is a weak battery, based on the symptom set provided
I agree that testing the battery is better than connecting jumper cables and
if the cables work then the battery is toast. But the OP appears to have
zero skills in testing, therefore if the jumper cables start the car then
the battery is dead.
On Tue, 26 May 2015 18:31:40 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
You are not as smart as you think you are. The accessory circuits
share the battery positive terminal and cable, the battery negative
terminal and cable, in many cases the chassis ground, and in many
cases the battery connection on the starter solenoid with the starting
circuit. Accessory loads run through all of these components, and if
there is a high resistance it will warm them up, a very effective way
of starting some fords in particular with bad battery
cables/connections, was to turn the headlights on first.
As for engine grounds - a missing engine ground cable may start a
Chevy - much less likely a middle aged Ford. Depending on theground
current flowing from the starter to the engine block to the bell
housing to the transmission case to the drive shaft yoke, through the
U joint to the main drive shaft, through the second U joint to the
rear yoke to the pinion, through the pinion bearing to the diff case
(or through the ring gear to the axles and through the axle bearings
to the axle housing, and then through the rubber isolated coil springs
and shocks, or the rubber bushed rear leaf springs, to the chassis is
definitely a very foolish endeavor.
EVERY automobile made has the MAIN battery ground connected to the
engine block or a securely fastened accessory such as the alternator
bracket or air conditioning compressor mount. It may also have a body
ground and or a chassis ground - or the body and chassis may be
"bonded" to the block with ground braids or ground cables.
Not only will a bad or missing engine ground often cause a starting
problem - it often causes charging system problems as well.
Also, stray ground currents going through the drive train often causes
wheel bearing failure, U'Joint failure, and even differential gear and
bearing failures due to arcing. This can happen even with an excellent
engine ground if the chassis ground to the engine is bad. Ground
current from lights, blower motors, etc travels through the body, to
the chassis, through the drivetrain back to the engine ground., and
the current flow through the bearings and gears causes etching - and
If that is the case, he /she has no business opening the hood, or
connecting a jumper cable, od attempting to diagnose or repairr
ANYTHING on the car.
And replacing the battery will make it start for, perhaps a week - and
the problem is very likely to return.
The ONLY way to diagnose this properly is with a couple test leads and
a good voltmeter to do voltage drop tests.
If the OP is not capable of understanding or doing this - they MUST
get a trusted, capable mechanic to do the job.
And not trying to be nasty here - but DO NOT hire Jeff for the job.
His understanding of the problem is marginally better than yours.
Wear is the OP located??
If the weather and scenery are nice they can pay my airfare and hotel
stay and I'll hop over with my multitester and do a proper diagnostic,
and in all likelihood a proper repair, in an afternoon for a very
reasonable hourly charge!!! Just don't let Border Control know I'm
coming to put an american greasmonkey out of work if they are in the
Pls post how it turns out. I had a similar symptom not long ago -
clicking solenoid occasionally. Everything pointed to the battery.
Jumped it and same problem. Turned out the ground cable connection at
the battery post was corroded. Cleaned the terminals & clamps, stripped
the ground cable insulation back, cut off the bad wires, scrubbed the
wire clean, replaced. Not only does it start quicker than normal,
headlights are back to being bright again.
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