Re: GM or Toyota

In message , =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= writes

Vauxhall and Opel are really the same arm of GM where in England Ellesmere Port, make all the Astra's for both Marques and Luton Make all the vans for both marques. Factories around Europe make different models like Germany produces the Corsa with both badges, It's just that all the output of the combined factories make the full range and in Britain all the cars sold are all badged as Vauxhall, whereas in the rest of Europe the standard brand name is Opel. Where "Which?" Divides cars into five categories from very good to very poor,Vauxhall/Opel come out at the bottom of average.

Really? Why did you post this in a toyota, gm and ford group?

And just when, for the information of others on this list, did that happen?????? LONG before the Escort came on the scene in England.

And the Vauxhaull/Opel is one of the best car lines you can buy in Europe. They were not a BAD car on this side of the pond either - at least not the Vauxhall. Never had Opels in Canada to any extent, just like the US didn't get many Vauxhaulls.

My last Vauxhaul was a 72 Viva HC Magnum rebranded as a Pontiac Firenza. GREAT little car.As long as you remembered it was a british car, not a Pontiac, and serviced it accordingly.

Not to forget, how many countries would you need to drive through to cover the distance from NYC to Detroit - much less from Tampa to Seattle or Bangor Maine to SanDiego?????? In Britain it's pretty hard to drive 100 miles in a straight line. In most of Continental Europe it is the same.

And only a VERY few of even them. Basically the truck based stuff and the Mustang.

The 1981 Firenza wasn't a Vauxhall. It was a Monza/Vega/Abortion. A

1972 Viva HC (Magnum) was a better car. It was rather "basic" but it did the job, well, for a lot of years. ALso sold as a Firenza - but Pontiac, not olds. And it was MADE in old Limey.

Opel sent some of their cooler cars here, the Manta 2 door coupe, and the GT, which was way cool. I almost bought one but it was in too rough shape for my limited skills at the time.

But I sure would love to drive the road Princess Grace got killed on driving down into Monaco...

Citroen had a LOT of innovations.

All true. What galls me is the people attacking TOyota and overlooking some of these magnificent recalls from American companies, like recalls are something new.

well, the "truck based stuff" includes suv's, and they used to be 50% of the market. then you have all the taxi's, highway patrol vehicles, and all that larger stuff like the camaro, impala, etc. there really is no excuse.

eternal-september.org...

You probably are more correct in your assessment than most of us who post here, C.E.!

Recalls are by far nothing new. I remember when the likes of USA Today would front-page ANY recall GM or Ford had, no matter how insignicant it would be as far as safety or reliability was concerned.

The big thing is the total number of recalls the Toyotas are having today. It's totally in the tens of millions over the past few years, and like a snowball rolling downhill, growing on an almost daily basis. You can whitewash it any way you want, they have major issues to deal with.

And, unlike the tire pressure monitor, or dome light malfunction, or heaven forbid, the leaking gasket recalls GM had in the 80's and 90's, Toyota has REAL safety and relibility issues.

Sludging engines.

Rusting suspensions.

Throttles sticking wide open.

Braking issues.

If you feel that Toyota is being unfairly attacked, then you know exactly how I feel about the way GM has been attacked for the past

25-30 years.

Now, just compare the things on which the GM and Toyota were attacked.

Hey - just want to let everyone know that Toyota has gotten into manufacturing keyboards and I picked one up today. Little pricey but the quality seems okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

damn.....never mind... :)

Some beautifull curvy roads where the european style cars come into their own. American iron makes poor rallye cars too. When I was ralllying in my (relative) youth we had a 1972 Renault R12.. On the rough roads of central Africa the American cars would not have stood up well either. Killed my '67 Peugeot too. The '49 VW stood up pretty well, considering!!!

They used to be 50% of the market in the USA - but not in Canada. All the highway patrol vehicles up here, virtually, were either Crown Vic based (RWD) or FWD Chevys untill the Charger took a bite out of the market. ALL of the RWD passenger car offerings from Chrysler are independent rear suspension. The Camaro is also 4 wheel independent. The Crown Vic /Pursuit Special is history.

SO - what is still being sold with the "horse and cart" axle is the Mustang and a FEW of the compact SUVs. - and most of the light trucks and BIG SUVs

Due to overly optimistic extended drain recommendations.

Talking the old Tercel recall, or the recent pickup frames? As late as the early '80s , or whenever GM stopped using full frames on their cars, GM also had a SERIOUS frame rusting problem. The early Ford Taurus line had a serious problem with subframe mounts rusting off, litterally drolpping the subframes off the body. (due to body-mount washers disintegrating) The 80-81 Tercel rear suspension rustout was fairly limitted to the "rust belt" and when doing the recall, well less than 10% even here in "salt central" Ontario required replacement. The recall involved punch testing, and rustproofing those that passed the punch test. Some had internal coating (like paint) from the factory, and some did not. I THINK it was a dual source situation. Toyota used to ALWAYS have 2 sources for everything.

2 different brake suppliers. 2 different tail-light suppliers. 2 different headlight suppliers, 2 different suspension strut suppliers, etc way back when all toyotas were made in Japan. They were interchangeable as an assembly although parts did not necessarily interchange between assemblies.

EXTREMELY rare occurrence. Sticking partway open, yes - but , except for the floor mat issue, virtually NEVER without warning. The sticky throttle has ALWAYS been a "progressive failure" - with pedal effort increasing before the throttles stuck.

Which have NOT been "brake failure" - it is a brake "feel" issue and it only shows up in situations where braking is affected already - like rough and/or slippery roads - where if you are driving sensibly for the conditions it will NOT cause an accident. Nothing mechanical either.

But GM deserved it every bit as much as Toyota.

In many cases the same things.

Problem was GM never fixed it that is why they died and went to .........

On Feb 10, 11:13=A0am, "Mike Hunter" wrote: snip

snip

I thought Toyota's goal was to be number one...and so they are!