Won't Start - checked these things - ECM suspected?

As mentioned before, the tan wire is the relay primary ground. With the relay in its socket, put a test lead in the tan wire and put the other test lead to a ground, turn the key to RUN do NOT turn the key to crank!, do you have 12 volts? Yes or no? If yes THEN turn the key to crank. Do you now have less than 12 volts, if yes what is it? If it is below 12 volts like say 1 or less, that is normal and the circuit is working correctly. If it stays 12 volts get back to me.

Okay, in a round about way, you did connect the tan/lt green wire to ground as i directed. This -should- have forced the relay closed and turned on the fuel pump.

How does the new fuel pump relay compare to the old one physically? Is it the same shape, same color, same terminal configuration? Is there a Ford part number on it, is it the same as the old relay? If you look at the terminal end of the new relay, do you see any numbers that identify the terminals, numbers such as; 85, 86, 87 30, 87a, ?

I'm thinking that AutoZone sold you the wrong relay, you have power to the primary (red wire) you by-passed the ECM when you grounded the tan/lt green, you can make the pump run by jumpering the secondary, so the only thing left is that the terminals in the relay connector aren't properly matching the terminals on the relay itself. Two seconds (or so) after you turn the key on you should be able to measure 12 volts at the tan lt/green wire, you can take the measurement anywhere in the circuit, at the relay itself, at the EEC self test connector, from your posts so far, you haven't seen 12 volts at the tan/ lt green under any circumstances when the key is switched on, this means that the 12 volts on the red wire are not making their way thru the relay coil windings, either because of an open in the windings or because the terminals don't match up.

=========================== Well if what you say you are positive of. If the wire digram is correct, your problem is the fuse link on the yellow wire, or at least a bad connect somewhere to the yellow wire. Fix the yellow wire's power first, it should have 12 volts ALL the time. Check it while cranking too, just to be positive. You should not of had to touch it to the positive battery to make the pump come on, it should run by connecting the orange and yellow by themselves. Again, fix the yellow wire, the fusable link is probably near the battery comming off the battery side of the starter solenoid. Again, fix the yellow wire. It is very possible you have blown it testing and stuff but it is very hard to fix two or three electrical problems at one time. Did I metion fix the yellow wire? Sorry, but I couldnt resist. :)

Hi Sharon, Check your e mail @ no.com addres I've sent you a test instruction for the distributor module. The hotwiring of the pump is Ok just for test purposes. It would be a very dangerous way to drive the car in public hotwired in the fuel pump system. It is designed this way in case of a crash or fuel line rupture so if the fuel rails loose pressured the engine stalls, the pump will stop running. Due to no pulses from the module in the distributor. So If your module is bad, the car will run hotwired as you have proved out within these test instructions from everyone in this forum. If you drive your car with the fuel pump hotwired and have a crash and fatal fire, you have it right here in writting NOT to drive this car in this condition. The switch/breaker in the trunk is an extra measure of safety. Replace the module in the distributor. That will solve the problem. Have you ever noticed the fuel pump keep running when your car stalled..? I don't think so... Oh, OK...Just got your mail, and you've got it in the bag now...Just posting so others know... Regards, BeeVee

Yes it's safe. The pump isn't supposed to pulse, once the relay closes it stays closed until you shut the engine off. Bob

Its ok, the pump runs the whole time the engine runs, no "pulse".

OK, I looked at the diagram, at the relay. Using a12 volt test light. Yellow wire- should have 12 volts all the time, check it while cranking the engine too. If it does have 12 volts all the time, remove the relay. With a jumper wire, jump from the yellow to the orange wire. The pump should run and the car should start. Please dont say cranks over if you mean running. Cranks is the starter cranking the engine, starts is the engine actually running. If it starts, then say it runs or it starts. Sorry but it can get confusing. Post back with your results. Maybe if we do this one step at a time we can firgure it out.

I'd have a lot more confidence in that relay if it came from a NAPA, CarQuest or from a Ford dealership. Autozone, Parts America and other such bubble pack palaces tend to sell offshore third world built junk which often times does not work correctly out of the box. The only way to know for sure if that fuel punp relay is correct would be to pry off the cover and physically trace down the terminals to their respective contacts and coil windings.

Sounds like a version of the Bosch ISO relay which is somewhat popular for certain automotive applications, it has five terminals, two for the coil winding, one hot, one normally closed, one normally open. If the terminals were numbered, it would be pretty easy to direct you as to which colored wire should go to which terminal.

Some testing which you can do in the morning, weather permitting...

voltmeter negative (black) lead connected to battery negative, relay unplugged from socket; Yellow relay wire reads 12 volts always (it should) Red relay wire reads 12 volts with key switched on (it should) Jumpering the yellow wire to the orange wire, the car starts and runs (it should)

Switch your meter to ohms or continuity test; red lead on (touching)the tan/lt green wire at the relay socket, black meter lead on (touching) ECM connector harness terminal 22, meter shows low ohms or continuity (it should).

I don't think anyone has suggested that she drive the vehicle with the fuel pump relay by-passed.

Um, no. The fuel pump relay does what any relay does, it allows for switching a high load circuit without running heavy gauge wiring and it allows for control of the fuel pump according to whether or not the engine is running. The relay in and of itself has nothing what so ever to do with crash worthyness.

No. If the "module" is bad, the car won't run, plus, there is no fuel pump running (prime) when the key is first switched on before the starter is engaged, the fuel pump should at least be able to prime regardless of whether the 'module" is working correctly or not.

Oh please, what is it that you think the fuel pump relay can magically do in the event of a crash?

Finally, a correct statement.

Why? If she jumpers the fuel pump circuit the engine will run. That proves that there is a PIP signal to the ECM which can trigger the ignition module -and- pulse the injectors. IOWs, she'd be wasting $100 on a part that for all mortal purposes is functioning correctly.

The problem does not manifest itself as a lack of spark or a lack of injector signal, both of which would be key functions of the ignition module. She has (for whatever reason) a fuel pump that will not turn on, even during the prime sequence which is totally separate from the ignition module.

Have you ever noticed that to energize the fuel pump on any domestic Ford product, all one needs to do is turn the ignition switch to the on position; the pump will run for at least two seconds. I didn't think so.

================================== I've got to back up Neal, he's right on the money. It is a power, ground, and or ECM problem. I would hotwire that pump if I *had to* in a second. But I would not make a habit of it, it definitely should be fixed. :)

Thomas,

First I drove back up to AutoZone with my Uncle's vehicle and got the four prong fuel pump relay. It made no difference. Then, I forced the fuel pump to run by grounding the tank and putting a jumper in the orange wire that goes to the inertia switch and the other end on the +battery terminal. I left the fuel pump relay in the socket to do this. The pump kicks on and runs constantly, but the car does not start. I hope you can tell me what that may mean. I am going to try BeeVee's suggestion on the distributor ignition test next.

Thanks and take care, Sharon

It does drop down a little while trying to crank the engine. I am going to try the next test anyway.

No, it will not start. The pump turns on, I can hear it, but the car will not start.

Take Care, Sharon

No, the fuel pump has not run since the problem began. It was the original problem. Somehow, I believe, the original fuel pump relay was bad and stayed on all the time, draining the battery. I got the battery recharged (originally) and heard a lot of clicking noises when jiggling the relay wires, but no fuel pump noise.

Take Care, Sharon

Thomas, if you look below, you will see that you did not tell me which wire to check voltage on. I just assumed you meant to check on the tan wire. It was the tan wire that I got no reading on. Please tell me if I was to check the grounding wire also? Take Care, Sharon

I have made the assumption that it is running, since I am smelling a strong odor of gas after it runs a bit.

Don't have one.

Yes

No cables and I am assuming that this is okay since everything else is operating properly and I am getting a 12volt reading on the yellow wire.

Thomas,

After reading all that I have done and following this through from the beginning. Can you give me some idea of the different auto parts that you find suspect or that may be causing this?

Thanks and take care, Sharon

Did the fuel pump work before you changed the solenoid and battery cable? In a post you made on 11-04-03 you said

end of the solenoid

Sounds like that is when your problem started. Stan

wire

You have nothing coming out of what wire? the tan or red? You may have reported it, but you leave out information.

You shouldn't need to touch the battery when bypassing the relay. Simply connect the two wires of the secondary circuit to each other.

A relay is just a "light switch", but instead of you standing at the top of the stairs flipping the switch, the computer in the car is flipping the switch (electrically, not mechanically). Also, instead of the light in the hall turning on and off, the fuel pump is your "light bulb".

If a light switch in your house was broken, you wouldn't run a jumper cable all the way down to the power company :-). You would simply connect both terminals of the switch together if you wanted to verify that the switch is broken, not the wiring. Likewise with the relay in your car. Instead of connecting the orange wire to the battery, connect the orange wire to the other wire in the relay (I think it would be the yellow one, since that's the one Scott said to fix). If bypassing the relay like that doesn't work then the other (yellow) wire needs fixing. After you've solved that problem, move on to the next one (if any more remain, but it sounds like there are).

HTH,

-D

No, it works the other way also, by just jumping the two wires (yellow and orange). I can get the pump to turn on, but I can not get the car to start. I have no tools to check pump pressure, but it sure ran like a top all the way across country, just before it died. It did not spit or sputter, so I would think the sock is clean and I put on the fuel filter just before I left NY. I put almost 3000 miles coming here. No problems with running or starting. Nothing. Seriously. I would think if it was a fuel pump clog, it would act up, just a little.

Take Care, Sharon

From my post at 5:11 pm yesterday: "I am going to make an assumption on that wiring diagram that the red wire is the line in on the primary line and the tan/lt grn wire is going out

I have the fuel pump relayconnected properly. When I test the red wire, I have 12 good, solid voltsgoing in. When I test the grounded tan/lt grn wire, I got nadda." What I meant by 'nadda' on the tan/lt grn wire is that I get 0 volts all the time. I have tried to read the volts on just that wire, nothing. Then I added an extra ground to that wire (as someone suggested later) nothing. Then I stripped the insulation off of a section of that wire to make sure I was getting a good contact, nothing. If I crank the engine, I get nothing from the very start, so it doesn't 'drop down to 0'. So, I have no idea what you are talking about, because I already did the test you are telling me to do and I already replied to this NS about the results in detail and I already took suggestions that were given to make sure it was done properly and reported back on that also. You said "Put the test lead on the tan wire with the key in run, do you have 12 volts, I'll assume yes, and that is what you should see." Let me answer clearly No, I do not have 12 volts on the tan wire. I have 0 volts on the tan wire.

Take Care, Sharon