G.M. and Ford Stuck in Neutral ---NY Times

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buying one as soon as the came out. I was very dissapointed when seeing the final product. I first saw a picture in print then decided to go to a dealer to see if it looked that plain in real life, when I saw them parked on the lot I didnt even bother to get out. As I drove up the dealer was walking towards my car I just drove off, I felt kind of bad for dissing him, but felt a little pissed off as if I had been fed the old bait and switch routine by GM.

Reply to
Lil Rascal

I think that one of the cars that GM should have built exactly like the concept is the Buick Velite. That is the ONLY Buick out there that I would consider buying IF they made it exactly like the concept. But they'd probably water it down alot.

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Reply to
Phillip Schmid

Is the Zeta chassis the one that got canceled? or is it the one that the pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky is coming out on?

GM's problem is they make 5 different cars with the same platform. They need to cut it down to Chevy, and Cadillac, get rid of pontiac buick and the GMC nameplate, maybe keep GMC for medium to heavy duty trucks, but thats it.

Reply to
Paradox

Development of the Zeta chassis has been canceled for North America but will continue in Europe and Oz(Austraila)

No, GM needs to go back to the way they were before "Corporate Bullsh*t 1982" Give each division their own engineers so when you buy a Chebbie you get a Chebbie, when you buy a Pontiac you get a Pontiac, and when you buy a Buick you get a Buick. When GM had competition between its divisions it was pushing

50% of the market. Right now its just the same old crap with a different name on the front. Cadillac has FINALLY got back its own development and engineer staff and look at the nice cars they're coming out with now!
Reply to
Dennis Smith

Zeta was cancelled for N/A, but apparently it was taking the Aussies version and playing around with it. Doesn't really make much sense to me to have 2 independent developments of the same platform, but that could just be me. Solstice and Sky are coming out on Kappa.

I think that GMs problem is that they use the exact same everything on every car of theirs across the brands. If they want people to buy the more expensive ones that are the same as the cheaper ones they have to throw in some different things, not just add in more options as standard equipment. The differences have to stand out.

GMC trucks buyers I've found don't generally like the Silverado styling so they end up going with GMC. I'll bet that if they killed those trucks half the buyers would go to Chevy and the other half to Ford.

BTW, I'm not sure if you heard or not:

First Thousand Pontiac Solstices Ordered in Minutes Friday April 15, 6:20 pm ET

- Exclusive First Orders Received from Customers in 47 States

DETROIT, April 15 /PRNewswire/ -- One thousand lucky driving enthusiasts are looking forward to receiving an exclusive version of the new Pontiac Solstice roadster after being first in line to participate in a special promotion announced on Thursday night's episode of NBC's The Apprentice. Only 41 minutes were required to sell out of the specially-badged "First

1,000" Solstices.

"With the great response we've seen to the design and performance features being offered in our new Pontiacs, we were expecting many customers to jump at the chance to order one of the first Solstices," said John Larson, general manager of Buick-Pontiac-GMC. "But we were thrilled that we achieved such amazing results so quickly."

Orders were received from more than 650 dealers in 47 states. Additionally, more than 4,000 customers have asked to be placed on the wait list for one of the exclusive vehicles.

The Solstice early order program will continue through Sunday, April 24. Although the exclusive "First 1,000" cars have been ordered, Pontiac dealers have an additional allotment of Solstices available for pre-order during this period.

Reply to
Phillip Schmid

Good point.

Reply to
Paradox

The solstice is going to sell really well because now everyone is looking for an economical vehicle with good gas mileage. If the Solstice/Sky really come out at around $20K, then people might rather buy one then a generic looking compact Cobalt (the 4 doors look like Kia Rios, and the 2 doors look like Cougers?). Plus chicks dig roadsters.

Additionally,

Reply to
Paradox

**NOTE - I really do wish someone at GM will read this, it's not me yelling at you, but the truth. Innovate or die - the choice is yours.** *** They need to consolidate, first off.

All trucks and SUVs from all lines are moved to Chevrolet. GMC is redundant anyways and is gone. All passenger cars are moved to "GM" - Buick and Pontiac become one unified brand selling cars only.

Cadillac remains mostly the same. Special cars retain their old names, like the GTO. If done right, they would retain the same offerings but with 1/3 the total number of vehicles and *half* the dealerships. All while providing the same number of overall sales. GM can survive if they get rid of the bloat and crusty layer of grime and rust from the past.

That they are fractured across over several different dealer lines and model lines(Pasadena, CA, for instance, has a Chevrolet, GMC/Buick, and Cadillac dealership - all within a mile of each other. Oh, and a Saturn dealership not far away either. Talk about waste of resources.)

One mega-dealership would work much better. Inventory should be controlled off-site. Keep a fleet of demo only vehicles on the site - so that they have all 50 GM vehicles at one dealership and run those into the ground. Want a specific model? Drive that from the warehouse/lot. Toyota in Studio City, CA. does this - they have a small lot and then a huge multi-level parking structure filled with their inventory that they don't touch unless the buyer is serious. This way they can keep the entire inventory on site for a couple of lines. Want a Toyota or Lexus? One stop shopping.

Rows after rows of LeSabres does nothing. You've seen 2-3 of them, you've seen them all. Just wastes space.

**** Secondly, they need to go old-school. Less plastic. Less gimmicks. Heavier metal and BRING BACK RWD AND STICKSHIFT!

What made their older cars have character was that they weren't like the other brands. Simpler, heavier, better built cars that had character. Love it or leave it kind of cars. A rolling jellybean with a million worthless options that nobody cares about other than some design department that's burdened with a "group-think" mentality doesn't sell. Welcome to the new century. GPS? Give me a better seat instead. Fancy trip computer? How about a battery that's not in an impossible place to get to when I have to jump-start this monstrosity? (LeSabre gets a mention for this blunder).

How about bumpers that are good for 5mph? Why *NOT* give us more than the government requires? Why not save us from thousands of dollars in repairs for minor things that a big $100 piece of chrome plated steel would fix(and that we'd gladly pay for)

Consumer Reports is right on this one point - that the sorry state of bumpers is a discrace. They are right to complain bitterly as it used to never be a problem. My old 1984 Regal that I had in High School was immune to parking lot mishaps. A new GTO(twice the price, relative, mind you)? Plastic that looks good.

Sure, the cars might get 2-3 mpg less, but they would be fun to drive and sell well. You'll notice, for instance, that the Wrangler still sells well even after hardly any changes. Why? It's basic and it works. You can work on it yourself and there aren't a million computers and fancy features to break.

Hyundai, for instance, which is essentially Kia(the two brands seem to have switched quality when they merged), makes nice simple cars. Just the basics and a low cost. Charging customers $3000 in options because you can't get them in the door at a low price is silly as well.

Honda has this down to an art. 2-3 models of a vehicle. Options are nonexistant, but each trim level drastically changes the car's interior and driving characteristics. Keeps costs down and makes choices easy for consumers. DX, CX, or LX? What color Civic you want with that?

Ford - they don't get this. They anti-get-this, in fact. Look at the basic Explorer. Now look at the Eddie Bauer line. Same dash, same insturments, same useless plastic slot in the center console for "storage". It's the same boring soulless vehicle. With $5000 in options that don't make it drive a bit better.

Now look at Mini. There's a world of difference in little things beteen the trim packages. And they don't charge a fortune, either. They charge more for the car up front, but the options are at cost. Smart move, as $20 for floor mats here and $30 there for another option - it all seems reasonable, as opposed to $50 floormats and $800 for leather and so on on a cheaper base priced vehicle. People don't feel like they are getting cheated. They buy the car and add $1000 in options $30-$50 at a time. Win-win for everyone as opposed to "here's a crate on wheels - want ABS with that for $1000?"

Totoya also gets this with their Scion line. Basic cars with no frills but lots of little inexpensive options(or some really neat ones like superchargers and ground effects kits)

Lastly, pricing. All GM vehicles should move to Saturn's model. Buy, option, deliver it like a grocery store. Be the first to break the back of the ogre that is the sales department. GM had a fantastic idea here(though the Saturns as a vehicle are bland as oatmeal) yet never carried it over. People hate and loathe shopping for most cars, yet are happy at the Saturn dealerships.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

GM: The magic formula for a car?

- Looks good, coupes and roadsters hatches/mini wagons are IN.

- V6 engine.(the 180HP 3.3 V6 will suffice, though a turbo-4 will also work.)

- RWD.

- Stickshift.

- Suspension that's more modern than 1960.

They would never be able to sell enough of these little racers in sheep's clothing. The IS300's sales went way up when they introduced stickshift.

Btw, I just described a Volvo 240 Turbo, which was a fantastic seller at the time. And half a dozen cars from the 60s and 70s. Cheap, fun, fast, and no computers trying to learn how to shift for you.

I talked to the local Mini dealer and he said that most of their California sales are for stickshift on the base model. Not automatic.

Also, it's odd - I can get an econobox, but if I want the fancier features like Stability control and leather, why can't I get it? Mercedes and VW offer this on all of their cars if you want to "lux" out your econobox or make it feel a little less like a personal bus ride.

$25-26K will get me a basic stripped down C230 or Audi A4, which even with nothing added, are more loaded than a typical Accord, Camry, or Regal.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:07:09 -0700, Chuck donned fireproof underwear and scratched on the wall:

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"If I was in their styling studio I'd be working 24 hours a day on models that excited me when I walked through the door," said Gerald Meyers, a University of Michigan professor and the former chief executive of American Motors, which was taken over by Chrysler. "There has to be excitement in that instant when the customer walks through the door. That decision to look and buy happens very quickly."

You know, I'd be paying a lot of attention to whomever created the new (misnumbered) 300c over at Chrysler. That car looks cool and is selling. I'd also get all my designers to watch the old movie on the design of the Mustang II back in '62, when they they took the Fairlane, added a V-8 and made a very hot seller - without the bloat of the then-current thunderbird.

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Reply to
Perfect Reign

The Solstice comes at...just a hair under 20k. But it has absolutely nothing for standard equipment. I could see it selling well too, don't get me wrong with that. I'm actually kind of worried that they'll be able to eat my Mustang (Not quite that good at stick yet, but I'm getting better. I haven't stalled out in a week or so.)

Chicks apparently like the new Mustang too :P

Reply to
Phillip Schmid

I think that you're right with the part where the GM brands should all be at the same dealership with only a few demo cars. There may be minute differences between the cars, but let the consumers find those out and let the weakest selling cars go. What good is having extra cars within a brand if they're not selling? I know that GM and Ford take the "package" route with options, you MUST get this to get this. No ifs, ands, or buts. That looks like it's starting to change though with the Solstice.

On another note, I went to get a new Mustang a couple weeks ago. I was at the dealership from 10 to 4. I'd like it to be a much quicker transaction then 6 hours for a car. Alot of the domestic dealerships here don't work on comission but on volume of cars sold.

Reply to
Phillip Schmid

"Phillip Schmid" wrote >

On another note, I went to get a new Mustang a couple weeks ago. I was at

I hate dealerships. A couple of months ago, I went to my local Ford dealer to buy a new F150. Of course the salesman couldn't make any decisions, so I had to wait 30 minutes for him to go talk to his boss. When he had to go back to his boss with my next offer, I told him if it took more than ten minutes, not to bother coming back, because I wouldn't be there. I waited 11 minutes and left. My phone was ringing when I got home. He wanted me to come right back because he was sure we were about to make a deal I would be pleased with. I asked if my last offer had been accepted. He wouldn't give me a straight answer so I told him to f---k off and hung up. Over the next week and a half, I got numerous calls from him on caller ID, but never returned his calls. Did I mention that I hate dealerships? I remember in the seventies, the deal could be done in under an hour and you picked it up the next day, washed and gassed, ready to go. I liked dealerships, back then. H

Reply to
Hairy

Maybe if more of us did this the dealerships would get the message.

Reply to
Drumstick

Saturn's fixed pricing would save you 2-3 hours right there.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

::SNIP::

This is a load of crap. First of all, these dealers are franchises, not extensions of GM. Sure, a mega-dealership would sell a ton of cars, but who's going to SERVICE them? You can't tell me that a GM dealer in every little town across the country is a bad thing there.

In fact, the rest of this article does nothing to change my mind that the writer is horribly misguided in general...

Reply to
InjunRAIV

Then make them factory outlets or perish. That they don't scale themselves back and get rid of the shoddy franchise methods of running their business, well, it's their own fault if they crash and burn.

No, but each make having a full setup? That's silly. How about having a GM (corporate)operated repair center and the dealers are small places that take orders. That would cut down on costs and shoddy repairs by nearly the half that they apparently need to survive this mess.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Sure, as long as you are willing to pay MSRP. One could buy any brand if they are will to do that. LOL

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

Except the money is in the service, not the sales.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

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