G.M. and Ford Stuck in Neutral ---NY Times

Joseph,

Have you ever walked >

Reply to
InjunRAIV
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People have no problem buying Saturns like this. Imagine if GM lowered its prices on all models by 2-4K and dropped their silly rebates, then moved to a Saturn type pricing model. No salespersons. No sleeze. No franchises.

Lean, competetive, and lower priced than the competition.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Which creates a backwards self-serving model of poor quality and higher prices. It's the drug-dealer and their low priced samples. "Buy this car at cost..."(We'll make it all back in repairs later). Sony? They make a decent profit on their TVs and very little on repairs. They'd rather they never had to repair them, in fact.

The whole industry is hopelessly corrupt and has their priorities mixed up. The vehicle and the sales should be what matters. But what we get is a huge service department and a tiny bit of attention to sales. Build as cheap as possible and repair as often as possible, while keeping the customers just happy enough to keep buying them.

Pasadena, CA. has no less than three GM dealers. All with full service departments and huge lots. (more than three if you count their subsidiary brands)

Any they're crying about loosing money?

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

This is a complete misnomer. The techs and workers that get paid the same salaries all are local, just as before. What changes is the management. It's a known problem that's been studied extensively. Franchises and corporate boards eventually lead to a fat, top-heavy business structure that impplodes about half the time.

What GM saves is having four dealerships in a town - they manage one via the main company and it saves them three rents and three entire staffs of salesdroids. (maybe twice the cost for the larger service center, but still half of what four cost them).

And crummy dealerships are more the norm than the exception.

I have no problem. I want a BMW Mini? MSRP. Fair enough, no haggling, no pressure, and really - who started this nonsense about MSRP? I pay $149 for a Playstation 2 and the price is fixed. We've gotten lazy. BMW says their Mini costs "X' and they could pull a Ronco on us and claim it's "$35K worth of car" marked down to $20K, or whatever. They sell for 47 palm trees, they sell for

47 palm trees. It's an artificial price anyways.

List price is nonsense. They could sell it for $100 over cost, and call that "MSRP" and you'd still complain that you're not able to get a "deal".

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Why would the lower the price? Saturns are sold at the same market rate as other GM products.

No franchises? Who would sell the vehicles? Manufactures can not sell directly to purchasers, under current franchise laws in the US. ;)

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
BenDover

I find it strange that every buyer expect the car dealer to sell them a car for less than the list price, yet will pay retail for a refrigerator or stove or whatever. Appliance dealers make a much higher percentage of profit than do car dealer. Furniture and jewelry stores make even more. A couch costs the retailer about 1/3 of the suggested retail price and jewelry even less.

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
BenDover

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:19:34 -0400, someone posing as snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com donned fireproof bloomers and chiseled in the wall:

(top-posting corrected)

I'm not sure who started the whole process, but it does make sense that a retailer should sell an item for a given price and that's it. A volume purchaser would be able to get a small % markdown but then they shouldn't go through the retailer.

I didn't mind buying my wife's Vue for the sticker. I know that the price I purchased the car for was the expected value.

Reply to
Perfect Reign

One must still shop dealerships in any event, particularly if you have a trade. Selling price alone is meaningless. The F & I guys usually make more for the dealership than the sales department. ALWAYS get a total drive home price, not just a selling price, before you decide which vehicle to buy.

(Thanks for correcting the position of my post to your liking and for others that have a problem, saves me the time. I'm to old to waist my time on that type of foolishness.)

mike hunt

Perfect Reign wrote:

Reply to
BenDover

Get rid of franchises. All factory run and controlled outlets. Saves huge money.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Unfortunately it is too late for that solution. Had the mistakes of the 80s not been made then GM might not be where it is today, but there is no way GM will ever regain 50% of the market.

There are many more viable competitors in the game now and nothing GM does is going to force the Japanese, Koreans or even the upcoming Chinese out of owning big pieces of the US market.

Some mistakes cannot ever be corrected.

John

Reply to
John Horner

I think you have that rights. Incremental development costs for the GMC front end are likely minimal and the additional sales make sense.

One thing GM could and should do right now is to honor GM warranty work at any brand GM dealership. As it stands today, you can only get GMC warranty work done at a GMC dealer and must go to a Chevy dealer for Chevy warranty work. Not at all customer friendly!

John

Reply to
John Horner

Everyday Low Pricing would work!

John

Reply to
John Horner

No manufacture will ever control 50% of the market. When GM was near 50% there were less than 20 models on the market and

7,000,000 vehicle sold in the US. Today it is more like 120, with more on the way, from three times as many manufactures selling nearly 17,000,000 vehicles annually. Percentages are not the criteria in any event, total numbers is more important and GM is selling far more vehicles today than any time in its history. LOL

mike hunt

John Horner wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

That is not true. We provide warranty service for every brand of GM vehicles. Our fleet service centers are an authorized warranty provider for every brand sold in the US. Read your warranty booklet. It says return to the selling dealer, if within 50 miles if possible, but you can receive warranty work at any GM dealership if needed. What you may have run into was a dealer that does not care to do warranty work on other brands at the expense of his own customers which is not unusual

mike hunt

John Horner wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

The automobile retail business is the most copulative business in the country. If you want to start a retail business that makes high profits open a furniture, jewelry or an appliance store, WBMA. When I was selling cars part time, when I was in college in the late forties, I earned a $25 Commission on car that sold for less than $2,000 and the dealership was netting $300. I was talking to a young girl that sells Toyotas. I nearly fell of the chair when she told me she gets $30 a car. When I was still in retail we were happy to net $300 on a $12,000 Corolla ;)

mike hunt

John Horner wrote:

Reply to
MajorDomo

Exactly. How many different GM dealership are there in Dallas, for instance, including all of their wholly owned subsidiaries? All running as seperate companies selling a nearly identical lineup of vehicles.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Hmmm, that certainly was not the experience we had with our 2002 Oldsmobile when it was under regular warranty. Several Chevrolet dealers told us that we had to go to one of the few remaining Olds dealers for warranty work. I haven't tried in the past year.

John

Reply to
John Horner

No wonder salesperson product knowledge is so lacking.

John

Reply to
John Horner

Then why are they in such horrible financial condition?

Reply to
John Horner

Read: Franchise. Quality and control as well as service are all up to a thousand different self-serving jerks. So you get hit and miss quality and service.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

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