It won't normally say on the bottle, just on the MSDS, which I can't find
We used very little resins before recycled hit big-time. Now they're
necessary to tie stuff together without using too much virgin.
They've found a way. Just how I don't know, since I come in contact with
the stuff after the mill.
Ten-fifteen years ago we had awful problems with dust and warpage. Most of
those have been more-or-less fixed (at great expense).
Corrugated also gets nearly 100% usage out of the trees. We pulp them
entirely, so stuff like splits and knots are meaningless.
The stupid thing is that nobody seems to know that just about all the trees
used for paper are FARMED for that purpose. About 85% the last time I
looked, anyway. Recycling paper to "save trees" makes as much sense as
refusing to eat corn in order to "save" corn plants. Paper recycling is
idiotic, but it's been sold to the public so effectively that you can't
counter the nonsense.
No idea. I never took chemistry.
This brings up another point though, that being a reason you're supposed to
change your manual tranny oil every so often: It seems gear action actually
chops up long polymer chains, so tranny oil has less and less film strength
the older it gets, and relies more and more on the sulfur and zinc
additives. Read that in some car magazine.
well by cheap i mean a recycler probably does not have to pay for the used
oil as in buying crude or derivatives at some cost per barrel and may even
get some incentive or payed for recycling.
i do not know what if any cleansing would be required before the refining
process to remove various contaminants ?
anyways it sounded like an interesting idea, "synthetic mfg from recycling
well ok i concur with that point, and i am wondering what is in the walmart
labeled synthetic ?
The cost is in the recovery itself. The trucks, the personnel, the sorting,
the elimination and disposal of contaminants, etc.
Ever wonder what becomes of the tons of toxins removed every year from used
motor oil? I have, too.
Lots and lots. And lots and lots. And lots. Lots more besides. Motor oil
picks up tons of crud, which is one of its jobs. ALL of it has to be
removed before the waste is turned back into motor oil again. Also, polymer
chains tend to get shortened with use, which decreases film strength, so
the oil needs to be "fixed" to make the chains the correct length again.
Lots of things sound like good ideas until you discover just how expensive
and troublesome it really is to achieve the idea. It's stupid to spend
double for something than you need to. Unless you're trying to make a point
of some kind, like buying a "Smart" car.
as with most thread differences i investigated further and found some
interesting info regarding re-refine (as it is called) of used motor oil one
link is as follows
the basic points made:
a.. 1 gallon of used oil produces 2½ quarts of re-refined lubricating oil.
a.. Recycling used oil takes half as much energy as refining crude oil.
a.. Re-refined oil prices are competitive with virgin oil products.
a.. API approved re-refined oils meet warranty requirements for new
a.. The United States Postal Service and National Park Service use
re-refined oil in their vehicles.
a.. All the oil generated by do-it-yourself oil changers in America, if
collected and re-refined, would provide enough motor oil for over 50 million
and some other links
well you know how to search
interesting. almost /all/ special steels are made from scrap. they
require extensive refining anyway, so may as well use [cheaper] scrap as
the start material. most new material gets put into continuous-cast
product that can't tolerate some of the contaminants post-consumer
recovered aluminum, while it avoids the extensive energy expense of
primary extraction, it not necessarily that useful a material. the
recycling of old soda cans into new soda cans is a classic example [or
at least, was when i was at metallurgy school - things may have
changed]. the can comprises two alloys: the ductile portion that is
deep drawn into the body of the can, and the lid which contains the ring
pull. the lid needs to have limited ductility otherwise the material
won't tear and the ring pull won't work. the body on the other hand
requires ductility to be formed. once they're joined, there's no
economic way of separating the two pieces, thus they both get melted
together on recovery. the resulting alloy is now a mix of high & low
ductility materials which is not usable for either part of the can. it
can be refined, but only at high expense, thus recovered soda cans find
their way into cast aluminum cylinder heads and other limited ductility
applications. new cans are made of new material.
last i heard, the most recovered material is steel. recovery from
domestic uses can be only 30%, but recovery from industrial use can be
The soft drink companies were the #1 proponents of recycling in its early
days. They were originally afraid to be stuck with the recovery costs for
cans the way they'd been for glass bottles. I guess they had no intention
of using the recovered aluminum for themselves.
That was my point originally. Many industries (including my own) have been
recycling their own waste for a century or more. Industrial waste is as
clean and pure as it's going to get, so it's relatively inexpensive and
easy to reuse.
The major problem with anything post-consumer is contamination. It's
impossible to control at the point of collection, so you have to spend
enormous sums at the sorting depot. And even then you'll get lots of
rejection upon delivery unless you spend millions in taxpayers' money to
bribe companies to take the shit.
My own industry is corrugated fiberboard. Post-consumer is hell to work
with. It's a non-starter without subsidies. Plus, with all the recycling
mandates, we've spent over a decade building entire new plants and machines
to handle post-consumer, since little of the existing equipment could
handle 99% recycled content. This caused shortages and increased prices for
finished goods, and there were terrible quality problems for a long time.
Also, the "recycled" corrugated contains a large percentage of resins to
compensate for the short wood fibers.
Even now 99% recycled is a poor sister to virgin. For critical applications
like UN-certified containers, virgin is the only way to go.
You can only recycle paper fibers so many times (about 7) before they get
too short to use any more, so you always have to gauge the repulped mix and
add virgin fiber and resins to beef it up again. They actually have giant
blocks of virgin pulp (couple of feet on a side) that get dropped into the
pulp like sugar cubes into coffee.
Did you know that for every 100 tons of recycled paper fibers you get 40
tons of unusable sludge? It gets landfilled or incinerated. No good for
tell my gf that next time she's insisting we sort through the garbage.
:( i'm all for recycling where possible, and motor oil actually /is/ a
candidate, but domestic stuff like oj containers, bags, cartons, etc???
i say forget it.
There is a misconception, more clearly expressed in the
message dated Jan 16, 7:18 pm: no matter how much is
spent on cleaning "used" oil it is not possible to make
synthetic out of it. This "interesting idea" is useless
because it doesn't work.
well isn't that the process of making a synthetic in the simplest laymen
breaking apart oil polymer/molecules (cracking) and then re-assemble
according to some desired/engineered characteristic.
and the point of such a venture... to produce a stable oil with many of the
characteristics engineered into the oil so that the synth does not suffer
problems as the dino coctails do
things such as viscocity stability w/o viscocity improver additives, then
high thermal stability and strength where synth oil does not break down
(shear) as quickly as dino oil which adds to extended oil life and then
there is the adhesion properties and bla bla bla
that is if you believe the pretty brochures produced by synthetic oil
PAO synthetic oil base stock is made from a hydrocarbon gas so no cracking
is necessary. Short chains are reassembled to make the desired long chains
which meet the engineer's reqirements. No annoying wax, asphalt or other goo
that is difficult to remove from the refined petroleum lubricant base stock.
Additives are mixed with this base stock to meet SAE reqirements. I'm
guessing the largest manufacturing expense is package design and
advertising. Amoco Ultimate synthetic used to sell at K-Mart for like a buck
a quart when purchased by the case. Most consumers were not aware of this
product because neither company chose to advertise and the label was flat
black. Amoco is gone now and K-Mart is close behind. Advertising drives the
market, not technology.
great! i knew an expert would show up and give some good info
i am weary of web searches more garbage and non-info than useful stuff
so there is no synthetic process that uses or alters some base stock oils ?
is it possible to use base oils (cracking into the short chains you mention)
can short chains be more easily derived from used oil as per re-refining
used motor oils ?
do you happen to know if there is some standards on synthetic labeling ? as
someone claimed that walmart synthetic is mfg from re-cycled oil by
of course if you have links to this info then i could go do the work
thanks for info
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