I drive a lot of rental cars also (10 a year at least) and find no problem in snow. I was in Fargo, ND just last week. Not a lot of snow, but the -34F with -50F wind chill was interesting.
Matt
And fleet rental cars don't exactly come with top'o the line tires.
Matt
Neither is your opinion about snow tires any indicator of need or efficiency or tread life.
Matt
I have not made a single false or misleading statement.
Matt
I just want to stick my two cents in. I am picky about my tires and drive about 25000 miles per year which is mostly drive back and forth to work in all kinds of lousy weather. Snow, Rain, Ice etc. and have found that Performance All Seasons are the way to go. They perform much better in the wet and as far as I can tell in the snow. The original tires that come on most new cars are junk, IE Michelin MXV4 - plane like no ones business. I currently have Michelin Exalta A/Ss which I am quite happy with. BTW the BF Goodrich Traction TA are not bad either. Check out the user reviews on various type of tires at
For the Record my previous car was a 92 Accord and went thru many sets / brands of tires and was never completely happy. My Tib feels much more stable in lousy conditions than the accord ever did. ME
Did you even read either of these articles??? Here's the first paragraph from the second one:
"Even if your car has traction control or an ABS braking system, those features won't improve traction on snow and ice. Experts at The Tire Rack say only snow tires will actually improve grip on snow and ice. Although all-wheel-drive or front-wheel-drive is an advantage, you'll still improve safety by swapping your summer or all-season tires for winter ones. This is because snow tires have special tread designs that help them bite into the snow. Snow tires also use a softer rubber compound, so they stay flexible at lower temperatures."
That certainly doesn't support your anti-winter tire assertions.
They lack a tread wear rating because they're not designed for year-round use.
On your truck I can believe it, but on cars it's not true, at least not in the absolute terms you proclaim. I can give you a perfect example, the tires on my Elantra. The car is an '04 and I've driven both sets of tires for four seasons (the winter season isn't over yet, but it's close enough). My summer tires - the stock Michelins that came on the car - are completely worn out and must be replaced. Actually, they really should have been replaced before last season, but they just passed inspection. In contrast, my winter tires still have 2/3 of their original depth. They will last at least another season and perhaps two.
Obviously, you're wrong, as the results on my car prove. I don't need a reference, I have the tires to prove it. If it makes you happy, I'll send you pictures of both. Your argument is simply a fabrication to support your bias against winter tires.
Don't change the subject. I've already covered that ground in another post.
So is that what you're argument is reduced to now? I'm not a lemming, therefore I must be wrong?
That's exactly what my experience has been.
I certainly wish the cars I've been forced to drive had something like that on them. I have yet to find ANY ASR that comes close to the performance of winter tires in snow. I have to wonder if you might think differently if you had the chance to do back-to-back comparisons on the same car(s), as I have? That always seems to be the stumbling block with most people. As I've said before, the people I've convinced to try winter tires have ALL been stunned at the difference. Essentially, they didn't realize what they were missing, which is understandable. Tire companies have done a great job of selling the "all season" myth.
That's certainly true, but they typically come with the same tires that the same vehicle is equipped with for consumer purchases. The few that I've actually looked at - generally because I was trying to figure out what was wrong with them - have all been major brand tires and popular models.
If it were merely an opinion, that would be true. I have the experiences to back it up.
If you believe that, you're kidding yourself. Go back and read the nonsense you've written.
FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with ASRs as three season tires, which is really what they are. If I was driving as aggressively as I once did, I'd want something stickier, but these days I'd rather not sacrifice wet weather safety for dry weather performance.
Reading through this entire thread of testosterone has at least tought me one lesson: Brian, you are not comprehending what people are saying here. NO ONE SO FAR has disputed the fact that snow tires are better in snow and ice. All everyone is saying is that they don't need them.
I work for a utility company and I HAVE to get to work in the worst conditions. I've also never had a problem driving in snow and ice that was below the front air dam on any car I have owned.
The biggest problem in these conditions is avoiding the idiots that don't know how to drive in the snow and ice.
The only time I have ever needed anything more than a good ASR was in 1992, when here in NJ we were encrusted in ice for several weeks. I went out and got some studded snows (on my companies dime I might add) and they helped me out tremendously. That was the only time I've ever NEEDED anything like that.
In the blizzard of 1996, I drove my car through 36" of fresh white powder in the Princeton, NJ, area. I was actually surprised I made it, but it went well. All on ASR's.
What exactly do you do in the snow and ice to need snow tires? I mean, I am a fairly assertive driver most of the time and there is nothing I can't do in the snow.
Just last week we had 6" (a surprise) of the white stuff and I was driving
50-55 MPH on the highway, easily passing many SUV's in the snow-packed left lane. Do you need to go faster than that in the snow???Eric
Yes, I read them both.
I've never made an anti-winter tire assertion. I'm not against them, I've said they are better than all-season tires in snow and ice, but I've also said that all-seasons are more than adequate for my needs and thus I don't need winter tires.
And because they wear so quickly consumers would be shocked at the numbers.
Tires wear by the mile not by the season.
You haven't provided any data to prove anything. You have provided no mileages for the life of any tires, just "seasons" which is irrelevant.
You aren't consistent. If you want the best possible performance, then you must drive AWD along with your snow tires. If you aren't driving AWD vehicles, then you are settling for less than the best.
Matt
Yes, I read it and it supports my assertions just fine.
What part of "The best were the all-wheel-drive cars, which reached almost 20 mph sooner, on average, than the front-drive cars equipped with winter tires." didn't you understand?
And what part of "Our advice. Consider an all-wheel-drive vehicle if you live in a snowy area or want added peace of mind. For maximum traction, equip it with winter tires. In less-snowy areas, front-wheel drive and a set of winter tires should suffice. Mount winter tires on all four wheels for balanced handling. Remove them after winter, since these tires wear quickly on dry roads (plan on about three winters of use). And be sure to opt for ABS on any vehicle." didn't you catch?
AWD is best in snowy areas. Winter tires should SUFFICE (emphasis added so you can't miss it) in less-snow areas. "These tires (referring to winter tires) WEAR QUICKLY on dry roads. Again, emphasis added since you missed this the first time around.
The only thing they left out is that all-season tires also suffice in most areas of the country.
Matt
There is no myth so it must have been a REALLY hard sell!
Matt
Your experiences are only the basis for your opinion. Many more of us have experiences exactly counter to yours. I assert that the odds are very high then that the majority of us are correct and you are not when you assert that everyone needs winter tires.
Matt
Point out even one false or misleading statement I have made.
Matt
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