This is all true, but what's your point? It says nothing specific about
the companies we're discussing. Unless you know what their QA/QC
procedures are, you have no right to denegrate them based on pure
3 different companies. An appliance manufacturer, a pipe fitting company
that made exotic alloy nuclear fittings, and a precision tool company that
manufactured and used many bearings of many types. I was considered their
in-house "expert" on bearings and lubricants. That Consumer Reports article
read like many of my own reports, and brought back memories! We used to do
bearing and lubricant wear tests with gages that had a resolution of
.000002" (2 millionth's of an inch)
HA!! That was my philosophy way before it was widely adopted! I was
considered a radical at 1 time. Instead of hiring and maintaining a huge QC
department to weed out defects, I emphasized quality at the point of
manufacture. I wanted every machinist to be a QC technician. I wanted my
inspectors, techs, and engineers to be primarily teachers. And yes, 6 Sigma
Matt, changing the label on a tool or bottle of oil does not magically
change their properties. Wal-Mart can sell brand name products cheaper
because they have mega-buying power, not because their label somehow
degrades the quality. Mobil1 from Wal-Mart is the same quality as Mobil1
from Pep Boys.
The only legitimate question is, what's in the SuperTech bottle? The MSDS
sheet says Pennzoil/Quaker state. Not exactly chopped liver.
I never claimed it did and specifically said above that brand name (and
labeled) products should be the same everywhere. If you really believe
that store brand products are exactly the same as brand name products
other than the label, then that is your prerogative. I know for a fact
that many industries sort products by specifications and "bin" them for
sale. The high quality products get sold under a brand name and the
lower quality get sold to folks that rebrand them. This is very common
in the electronics industry for example.
That is the only legitimate question, I agree. However, the MSDS
doesn't tell you what is in the bottle, it tells you what is supposed to
be in the bottle. Poor QA may well mean that what is in the bottle
isn't exactly what is supposed to be in the bottle. And, yes, I
actually do consider Pennzoil and Quaker State to be the chopped liver
of oil brands. Quaker State is one of the few oil producers that
destroyed a bunch of engines due to poor QA that let bad oil get out of
I don't think Pennzoil/QS or Shell or any other supplier would create a
blend just for Wal-Mart. That wouldn't make economic sense at all when there
are already excellent blends to choose from. SuperTech oil is simply
re-labeled oil that is identical to some other oil. The question is, which
one? Hint: It's a premium oil that meets all the latest API, SAE, ASTM Etc.
So, you believe every oil maker except for Pennzoil/QS is immune to QA
problems? Well I've got news for ya! :)
It comes down to trusting a label. I think Wal-Mart has just as much
integrity as the next re-seller of bulk-blended oil. In fact, Wal-Mart's QA
program probably strikes more fear into the oil companies than any other
outlet. After all, Wal-Mart is probably their most important customer.
Matt, we've got to be careful today. A person can praise one brand very
highly and smear another viciously and be embarrassed to find they are
different in name only.
We have huge oil bottlers that specialize in economically bottling oil for
many customers. In order to reduce overhead, I'm sure their inventory
consists of dozens fewer actual formulations than there are brands. And it's
subject to change from time to time.
That brings to mind a neighbor that used to tell me my riding mower was
junk, and his brand was the highest of quality. One day I took a close look
at his mower, and the only difference in the 2 were the paint job. I really
had some fun with that one!
Moral: Research thoroughly (not just old information) before saying one oil
is inferior to another.
It makes tons of sense. Wal-Mart is probably one of their largest
customers. If they can save 5 cents a quart by cutting back on the
additive package, that makes loads of economic sense. And it is well
known that Wal-Mart squeezes its suppliers on price like no other
company. Read the business press a little and you'll see they are
legendary for this. And if you think their supplies don't cut corners
to lower their price and keep their business, you don't know much about
Nope, but given a choice between a company that had a documented problem
and one's that haven't, and a company being squeezed on cost by Wal-Mart
and one that isn't, I'll take the latter every time. :-)
Ha, ha, ha. Wal-Mart has no incoming QA program. They put EVERYTHING
back on their vendors. Read a little about Wal-Mart's business
practices. It is very enlightening.
Yes, that is always possible.
Yes, and they also try to make the lowest common product they can get
I agree, most cheap lawn mowers are made by just a couple of companys.
That is why I buy John Deere equipment. So far at least, I've gotten
I don't think Deere makes their own mowers, do they? Neither does Troy
Built, Craftsman, Huskvarna, or Poulan AFAICT. They buy them from one of the
big manufacturers. I think "Yard Machines" is a main one, and another
company(? Maybe Electrolux?) is another big one.
Last I knew Deere made most of their mowers. The engine in mine is a
Kawasaki, which I considered a plus after owning three Kawasaki
motorcycles. Consumer reports had an article on mowers some time ago
and talked about who made which mowers. I wasn't thinking John Deere
bought from one of the mower mills, but maybe that has changed for their
low-end machines like those sold at Home Depot. I didn't buy one of
Once upon a time when we all had dark hair, there was a wide difference in
oil quality. Some was pretty good, some was bilge sludge.
Now, I bet there's VERY LITTLE difference from the best to the worst. Almost
imperceptible! Certainly not enough to get our shorts in a wad about.
This is the result of STANDARDS. SAE used to rule the roost, and their
standards metrics were primitive.
Now,,, there are several standards testing bodies in the fray, and the oil
bottlers must comply or die. We win! :)
Sorry, but I've seen test data (from the source I've mentioned here
several times before - MCN) that shows the above statement to be
patently false. There was a wide range of data in virtually every
parameter of the oil that was tested.
Some oils have far better additive packages than others, and the
correlation wasn't perfect with price and brand name, but it was
Standards in most cases provide only a minimum (or ocasionally a maximum
to prevent catcon poisoning) requirement. They don't ensure equality at
all. The Air Force has a minium height standard for its pilots (and a
maximum as well). Do you you really think this standard means that all
pilots in the Air Force are the same height?
Now that's a significant statement Matt - if it can be substantiated and
qualified. Can you share what kind of data you saw? What were the
parameters that differed and made that impression on you? How did those
parameters compare to standards? In other words - what were the specifics?
Is the data you saw available for review?
Standards do ensure that a product is indeed safe and proper for use - as
contrasted to arbitrary statements that "something may not be right". Not
to insult you but I'll accept standards certification long before I'll
accept your arguement that QA *may* not be up to snuff in the absense of any
Why don't you scan it and send it to us? I sent you the data I had. I
doubt that MCN is going to get worked up over a six-year-old article
being sent to a handful of people.
Hmmm, I suppose I could take a page out of your book and insinuate that
you MUST have something to hide, since you haven't produced the goods.
You MUST have gone back and re-read the article and figured out that you
were wrong. Yeah, that MUST be it!
See, it's easy to make up crap. How about producing some evidence, Matt?
Mike, I'm going to have to call you out on that one.
Since you seem to be calling me a liar, I'm asking you to show your data.
Not only what, but more importantly WHEN the testing was done. Pre historic
data doesn't count!
Oil is blended in modern plants, with state-of-the art equipment, all
computer controlled. There are many controls and check points, and
everything is recorded in logs. It's been that way for 20 years. It's a very
"settled" technology. If the button pusher or computer should glitch while
one brand is being bottled, that brand could possibly have some defective
bottles. One brand is just as likely to be defective as the others. The
color of the bottle has no bearing on anything.
Even if there is a breakdown of some kind, I bet buzzers and lights go off
all over the place, and the suspect bottles are rounded up and dumped into
the waste oil bin for re-processing. (or more likely, just dumped into
Mobil-1 bottles). <ROFL!>
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