That's not a real good example. Alot of Bose products ARE now made in china. That gets us back to the "what's the label say" issue.
I've been running Supertech Synthetic for a long time in a Dodge Caravan, Chevy Malibu, and Chrysler T&C with no problems - no leaks, no sludge, no nothing! If you look down under the valve cover on these vehicles, it looks really clean.
I quoted the fact. That fact is that all oils aren't created equal and some are better than others. You and Mr. Supertech are now asking me to post the details of the article, which would require scanning and posting as most was in graphical form. That would clearly be a copyright violation. And I'm not doing that much work (assuming I even still have the magazine in my archives) to save you $7 or whatever it would cost for a reprint.
This is all true, but what's your point? It says nothing specific about the companies we're discussing. Unless you know what their QA/QC procedures are, you have no right to denegrate them based on pure speculation.
I emailed you a .jpg file, Matt. You can't do the same for us? Tsk, tsk. I guess it's just easier to get your panties all in a wad and refuse to participate.
BTW, I have no ax to grind for Supertech, per se. I just don't like seeing a good product being lambasted by someone who obviously has no clue what they're talking about.
As I suggested above, go read the Consumer Reports article, since you're a fan of their testing. In case you ignored it above, here's the URL again:
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If you're too lazy to even click on the link and read the article - or unwilling to do so, since it refutes your claims - I'll summarize their conclusions for you:
1- There was no measureable difference in wear in the engines tested between brands of oil, regardless of price or type of oil (natural, synthetic or synthetic blend).
2- Any API certified oil will protect an engine for typical 7500 mile change intervals.
That was as of 1996. API standards have been raised 5 times since then, so current oils are even better than those tested, at least incrementally.
3 different companies. An appliance manufacturer, a pipe fitting company that made exotic alloy nuclear fittings, and a precision tool company that manufactured and used many bearings of many types. I was considered their in-house "expert" on bearings and lubricants. That Consumer Reports article read like many of my own reports, and brought back memories! We used to do bearing and lubricant wear tests with gages that had a resolution of .000002" (2 millionth's of an inch)
try to avoid having
HA!! That was my philosophy way before it was widely adopted! I was considered a radical at 1 time. Instead of hiring and maintaining a huge QC department to weed out defects, I emphasized quality at the point of manufacture. I wanted every machinist to be a QC technician. I wanted my inspectors, techs, and engineers to be primarily teachers. And yes, 6 Sigma was nirvana!
You are right! I think everyone agrees with you on that.
But Matt, it's a matter of DEGREE. Some of us believe the differences in modern premium oil are so miniscule that it's insignificant. Apparently you believe there are large enough differences within groups of similarly rated oil to cause premature engine wear. Even if that were true, I don't believe it would lead to the death of the engine. There are many other things that will happen to it first.
I dropped by friend's house 1 day, and he was struggling with a pallet of bottled water he had just brought home from Sam's Club. I ask about the water, and he said he "didn't trust the city water". On top of the pallet of bottles was several cartons of cigarettes. I told him not to worry, and guaranteed him the city water would not kill him!
These were laboratory tests of a half dozen or so oil properties of oils both sold as being for motorcycles specifically and standard auto oils. They weren't tests in engines so the fact that the tests were commissioned at an independent laboratory by a motorcycle magazine isn't relevant.
I never claimed all oils are the same. I didn't even enter this thread until you fabricated copyright law as an excuse you couldn't provide data!
If you expressed opinion based upon prior readings or other sources, no one could argue. Anybody can have any opinion.
I do have the opinion that synthetic's benefits are often over stated versus high quality modern conventional oil. "Overstated" does not mean they are not superior in some applications!
I have owned vehicles since 1966 and never used synthetic. I never had an oil related engine failure and probably have an average of 140,000 miles per car before replacement. I always used brand name oil of the highest rating available at the time.
Perhaps it is the brand motor vehicle I preferred or perhaps it was proper care. Since any oil is vulnerable to contaminants and additive deterioration, every oil needs to be changed.
Thus I am left with no data to suggest why I should not just meet or exceed the published specifications for my 2006 Sonata V6.
It has been 5+ years since I read the articles. I don't remember the specific details and I don't think I even have the mags anymore. Since nobody here cares enough about the data to obtain it, I've got nothing more to say on the subject.
Actually, I hope that the folks here don't buy premium oils such as Mobil 1, Castrol products, and similar. They cost too much now and if the demand gets any higher the price will only increase and cost me more money! It is bad enough that makers of cars such as the Corvette, a model or two of Porsche, etc., ship Mobil 1 from the factory and pretty much require its use.
Then again, Hyundais are cheap cars so it seems fitting to use cheap oils, oil filters, tires, etc., on them.
Oh come on Matt. I've worked in Corporate America for over 25 years myself. That fact has nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand. Do you think that most of America would really be surprised by things you've seen? The truth is that most of these "hidden corporate secrets" are quite common knowledge.
That's not what was stated Matt. Red Herring.
Uncertainty and Doubt. Most times, > Totally unfounded and only intended to smear a competitor or a
No, FUD is almost always unfounded and intended to smear. Factual issues are one thing, but speculative fears based on no evidence are not factual.
Ok - I'll be the one to steer this thread in a different direction...
I've never used synthetic oils. Pure dino all the way. I've typically driven my cars for 200,000 - 250,000 miles. I've had the valve covers off more than one of my cars and with well over 100,000 miles, I've never found any sludge or buildup. The most recent experience of this nature was when I replaced the intake gaskets on my daughter's '98 Malibu with a 3.4L. The car had 118,000 miles on it and when I pulled the valve covers the thing was spotless. On nothing but dino oil and those crummy Fram filters that have such a bad reputation here. The dino oil came from Wally World - you guessed it - SuperTech.
Someone has been bringing up the word "degree". I think that is the most appropriate word to this whole thread. Any differences are really not that significant. I change my oil faithfully at 4,000 miles and always have. I'm switching to synthetic just to get the added mileage between changes. I've got 5 cars in this household to tend to and reducing oil changes appeals to me. But, do I expect something more or something better from synthetics? Nope. How do you improve upon the experiences I've had in 35 years of driving and maintaining my vehicles?
I think I would use synthetic oil if I didn't worry about the filter. I trust syn oil up to 10,000 miles, but I only trust oil filters up to 6000. Filters are so small these days I'm afraid they could become restricted by normal combustion products.
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