Bring back the Brat or modernize the Wrangler

Ancient Styling? Then get a Liberty! That was the whole intention with the Liberty--a vehicle for those who didn't like the simple style of the Wrangler. Even a minor change (such as that temporary change to non-round headlights a few years ago) is fought by Jeep owners and affectenados alike.

If you want mileage, get a Prius (or the H>Jeeps, including the Liberty, are still gas guzzlers and the ancient

As I understand it, attempts to physically modify the Wrangler have been met with harsh criticism from Jeep enthusiasts. Making it "more aerodynamic" might alienate current customers. But I've never owned one myself, so I may be wrong.

I know that the idea of a 250+ HP minivan would have seemed absurd just a decade ago, but apparently people do want such things. Horsepower sells as much now as it did in the 1960s, only now it sells across the entire model line rather than just on the muscle cars and pony cars. On the other hand, although I don't *need* 250+ HP in my daily driver, I've found that with "only" 135 HP, I'm being tailgated a lot. I also have to deal with scary merges onto the expressway, when the plodding SUV in front of me goes 25 on the entire onramp until the final straight, and then accelerates up to speed. At that point, I'm left with 3-5 seconds to get to about 70 MPH in a car that takes about 11 seconds to reach 60. Not a problem if I would have been able to use the entire onramp as intended. In that instance, I'd love to have tons of power.

In regards to vehicle hydraulics, some of the older Subarus were available with air shocks which could raise and lower the vehicle. I know it was available on the XT, and perhaps also on the Legacy/Liberty. The system had an "auto" mode which would raise/lower the car as needed, as well as a manual override. Unfortunately, the shocks eventually would leak, and you don't even want to know how expensive those parts were. I believe the Audi Allroad (expensive Outback copycat) has a similar system, but I don't know how it compares to the Subaru air shocks of 15-20 years ago.

-Matt

Opinions are just that!

HarryS

Didn't you post that all last year as the 2005 Wrangler redesign? n.

I would like to have my 67 289ci bronco again. Only change I would want is a

You shouldn't be looking at Wranglers if you don't like they way they look. The Wrangler looks like a Jeep, just like it is supposed to. Ever watch a WWII movie? I was thinking my windshield has too much angle to it, for a Jeep ('05).

It doesn't need a redesign. That's why they put the round headlights back! :-)

Just using a diesel instead of the 4.0L would get good mileage. Driving slower gets better mileage too, even for aerodynamic vehicles.

While I wouldn't mind spending less money on gas, I don't want a weak ricer in my Jeep and I want my Jeep to look like a Jeep.

I read that the old CJs had ~60-80 HP in their engines. The difference is they had the torque they needed.

-D

How about the Jeep Liberty with the new diesel engine option?

Matt Doo owner Manta owner

The Liberty has independent front suspension, and is not intended for actual off-roading beyond dirt roads. It is, however, quite popular with the soccer mom who is too politically correct for a Suburban, in my area.

Plus, the roof is welded on!

Barry

Yeah, and it's a flop.

funny how Peterson's 4 wheel and offroad ran a pair of libertys down the Rubicon tail w/o breaking anything.. I'd call that a bit more extreme than a "dirt road"

-Bret

It is, however, quite popular

Bonehenge proclaimed:

Feh. You can drive a Volvo on dirt roads, troll.

The Baja definitely flopped. Subaru only sold it at first with leather at a 26000+ cost. They tried to appeal to young active people but proced it too high. By the time they figured this out it was too late. I actually kind of liked it and had a deposit on one but bought the OBW. For a bit more I got five seats and lockable cargo storage and a locking gas cap which the Baja failed to include!!! I LOVE the Outback wagon. My only complaint is the stock tires bridgestone potenzas have lost most of their grip at 39,000 miles even though the treadwear shows they should last 50k. I will have to get new ones in the spring or summer or sooner if snow keeps up but we've been lucky in NJ so far. No mechanical issues in 13 months/ 39k miles. I am however saddened a bit since I just found out Jeep is selling the unlimited whick is a modern Scrambler. It wasnt out in 1/04 when I had to buy a car due to my Trooper getting totalled. Jeep finally gave the Wrangler a 4spped trans but mileage still sux. There is just no reason for that.

And they made it butt-ugly.

I think my Outback is ugly, but bought it for the utility. The Baja proved that teh Outback could be uglier still.

So would I.

However, My '99 TJ Sport breaks things all the time, on dirt roads. This is my third Wrangler, following an '89 and a '92. I continue to buy them because there's nothing like no top & doors on a beautiful day.

I bought it new, and have had the following break:

Rear gate latch - 8k Water pump - 20k Radiator - 23k Gate latch #2 - 24k Stock plug wires literally crumbling in my hands - $36k (3 years) All (3) climate control knobs - 24-28k Top bow brass inserts stripped inside plastic tips - 2nd top swap Rear brake cylinders leaking brake fluid - 32k (the '89 did this as well) Door retention strap ripped out of door panel - 33k Gate latch #3 - 34k Rear main leaking - 44k

Not to mention the occasional, intermittent loss of power to the instrument cluster. I do not have a large tire on the back, only the stock 30", the gate latches are killing me. I'm now out of warranty and maintaining a repair fund, just in case.

Now, lets talk about just about every '99-'01 Grand Cherokee I know about, starting with the brakes.

I'm not shocked when a magazine dosen't break anything on the Rubicon Trail, but I also don't believe everything I read. I do have a feeling that the Liberty's they got weren't "blind" purchases, the dealer and Jeep knew where the individual vehicles were going.

Barry

Right. Have you compared tires and ground clearance?

I have a Subaru Outback and a '99 TJ. The Outback actually has better center clearance than a Liberty, even slightly more than the TJ, as there isn't a pumpkin. There are places the Outback excels, if it had a low range in the transfer case (center diff in this case), there would be more.

However, nothing gets over rocks and in and out of holes like the TJ's solid axles.

Remember when Jeep dropped the Liberty's ride height 1/2" so the soccer moms wouldn't flip them?

Barry