Lemon LAW?

Jerry, your ignorance is showing. In most states, lemon laws apply to used car as well as new car sales. In a used car lemon law claim the dealer is almost always involved because of warranties provided by the dealer independent of the new car warranty. The dealer also has an economic interest, both direct and indirect, in the outcome of new car lemon law claims handled by the manufacturer.

Your vitriolic insults suggest that you must have gone through a bad divorce or spent some time in jail, and, rather than take responsibility for yourself, you want to blame lawyers for the fact that you are an ass.

I must go now. I need to drive my Mercedes over to the country club for some golf, and then cruise down to the harbor for a ride on the yacht.

Robert Bills KG6LMV Orange County CA

Approximately 11/21/03 06:52, Matt Macchiarolo uttered for posterity:

And the worst representatives of those same manufacturers are the ones who characterize the major weapon available to the customer as scum.

Approximately 11/20/03 21:31, Jerry McG uttered for posterity:

Odd, my lawyer charged me roughly $75 bucks and even paid for his phone call himself.

It sure is amazing how pure and noble and holy the manufacturers are and how bottom-feeding the lawyers are. I can only conclude that a lawyer must have run off with your wife, your jeep, or your dog, and it was a totally willing abandonment.

last 10, but she said she will never buy another Honda again, as well...they lost 2 customers over this.<

This is precisely why I insisted we be proactrive in these matters, we simply didn't have enough customers to lose, or to endure negative word of mouth at the country clubs while we played "drag your feet". I ran an endless ten year battle with the bean counters over this but was lucky my management backed me up. Very stupid on Honda's part.

to a replacement.If it comes to that I'm thinking because it is a leased vehicle they won't screw around.<

In early '00 Mercedes Benz took back my '98 E Class after the local dealer wrecked it TWICE while it was in for routine servicing. They were really not obligated to do so, as it was the dealers fault, but very much to their credit they stepped right up. They simply took back the '98 and wrote a new lease on the '00 at the same terms.

remains not all manufacturers will do this voluntarily, regardless of what the law says. <

Well, no, Matt, they have to or they can lose their State distribution licenses and face a host of punitive finmes, etc. That doesn't mean they don't avail themselves of sound defensive strategies, but if they refuse to obey the law somone's in big trouble.

The hardest part about dealing with this for me initially was the Europeans couldn't grasp US consumer protection laws. The laws everntually were adopted by thew UK and the EU in various forms and they slowly caught on, but initially they thought we were just "rolling over" for the customers. (Thank GOD I retired!)

outcome of new car lemon law claims handled by the manufacturer. <

But, they have no economic liability whatsoever in the resolution of these cases, despite the fact they cause most of them through adminitrative incompetence, lack of training, inadequate parts inventory, etc.

divorce or spent some time in jail, and, rather than take responsibility for yourself, you want to blame lawyers for the fact that you are an ass.<

You sound like a very thin skinned lawyer to me, hope you never have to deal with me in a deposition! (The last atty who did ended up with larygitis and a case of shingles.)

some golf, and then cruise down to the harbor for a ride on the yacht.<

Say hi to the rest of the theives...er, lawyers out on the links!

performance brand fired after contacting the Porsche rep about truly bad service revolving around some of the stupidest repair actions I had ever witnessed. <

And, who did this? Not a slime licking lawyer, for sure, it was the Porsche rep. doing his job as he should. <

had better contacts than just looking in the owner manual and the phone book. <

And, you doubtlessly contacted the same people whose numbers you'd have found in the owners manual or the phone book, the difference is you ended up paying a lawyer for a very expensive 411 call!

That's because over in Germany (Example) the corporation has all the rights and the individual does not. You are up the creek over there if you have to go up against a corporation.

If only all manufacturers would be so proactive. You'd expect Honda to do it, but it would seem based on my experience they would rather drag it out than admit they even made a lemon. I guess they have plenty of other customers.

During all this I ran a couple hours' worth of Web seaches and found that this oil leak we experienced is not an uncommon defect in the Honda V-6's, this was

Friend of mine recently had an issue with a Ford Superduty with the new 6.0L diesel, and they replaced the truck *twice;* the first replacement had the same engine problem, so they replaced it again with the V10 gas engine. All without having to threaten litigation, and all within 90 days. If Ford was willing to do it, Honda should be as well....

• * * Matt Macchiarolo
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Approximately 11/21/03 10:14, Jerry McG uttered for posterity: [Good little manufacturers rep, scumbag lawyer tirades deleted]

Yeah, them lawyers are just all scum and you are the incarnation of Mother Theresa. I got some swampland you may be interested in, previous owner was the tooth fairy. Got a great bridge to access it as well, just relocated from New York City. Sheesh.

call himself. >

Oh, we see, a lawyer buddy made the call for you. In that case you should have been able to get by with just buying the creep lunch!

I just contacted my old Company and told them they are not to discuss or negotiate anything with Lon, but to instead insist they will only speak with his (bottom-feeder) lawyer.

Well, I did have to sign a non-disclosure agreement...but I'm guessing that Daimler won't bother me. I had a 99' Sahara that hade a MULTITUDE of service issues. It met both conditions for being a lemon in TX. More than 5 attempts to fix the same problems AND more than 30 cumulative days in the shop.

Believe me, if you don't do your homework and really learn the laws of your state, the manufacturer WILL try to screw you. I made a settlement agreement with a DC rep who somehow left out several key elements of our agreement when the contracts arrived. It took several months from the time I had a hearing until I got my Jeep. Texas also has a free consumer advocate to help with lemon law cases...without his help, I probably would have gotten screwed out of hundreds of dollars, and probably would have needed a lawyer.

BTW, in Texas lemon lawsuits, unless you bring a lawyer to court with you, the mfr can't have one at the hearing either. RB

the mfr can't have one at the hearing either. <

I recall that Texas used to do the BBB Autoline third party arbitration thing to keep this stuff out of the courts. Their decisions were not binding on the consumer, but were on the mfr, so if an owner didn't like the decision they could still sue. However, most of the State courts seemed to refuse to try the cases if BBB had ruled unless there was something very wrong with the decision.

Approximately 11/21/03 20:02, Jerry McG uttered for posterity:

Yeah, all you saint-perfect manufacturer's reps are just so totally honest and so willing to tell a customer with a problem exactly what their rights and responsibilities are in every individual state. And you do this with such concern for the customer rather than the folks who pay you that there is no need for people to check your possibly slanted and biased advice with a quick lawyer chat. The sheer magnanimous altruism with which you practice this profession is so amazingly saintlike I could just puke. Now why don't you go check out my website,

totally honest and so willing to tell a customer with a problem exactly what their rights and responsibilities are in every individual state. And you do this with such concern for the customer rather than the folks who pay you that there is no need for people to check your possibly slanted and biased advice with a quick lawyer chat. The sheer magnanimous altruism with which you practice this profession is so amazingly saintlike I could just puke. Now why don't you go check out my website,

LON! TAKE YOUR MEDICATION AND GO TO BED, RIGHT NOW!!!!!