Frank,
Most have anti-drain back these days, but some valve designs are more effective than others:
Even some Mopar filters are Frams in disguise:
FrankW wrote:
Did you guys see this link as posted in the other Mobil One thread?
Yep, presence of the 'anti-drain back' valve depends on the application. Many are still produced without the valve. I don't think though that you can find any non-valve filters listed for the 4.0L.
Steve
Mike Roma> The ones that call for a backflow valve get them, especially the CT > ones!
Just did some reading and found out that the Canadian Tire Formula 1 synthetic filters are based on the relatively decent Fram ToughGuard as opposed to the notoriously awful paper/cardboard ExtraGuard. Maybe not a bad choice after all. The Quaker State & Pennzoil filters are ExtraGuards.
Steve
FrankW wrote:
That Canadian Tire place must be the $hit up there! All you guys from CA talk about it.
JimG
It's kind of a love/hate relationship. Think Walmart with a Pep Boys inside.
JimG wrote:
It is a Canada wide chain open 7 days a week with lifetime tools and excellent warranties on things like tires, batteries, flats fixes, etc. They have everything from camping and sports to hardware, welding equipment and shop tools to automotive.
When I did a frame up rebuild on my CJ7 they got all kinds of parts for it, ones even Chrysler couldn't come up with like t-case shift fork seals, carb kits, etc....
Some folks think because they buy parts in bulk so they can sell them cheaper that the quality is lower. Most times they are the same parts from the same makers even in the same boxes but 1/4 the price.
Seals for 10 bucks with the same part number in the same bag as the $tealers $40.00 ones. Same for a gas filter once, $12.00 vs the $tealers $45.00 on a Volvo I once had. Same bosch box, same part number....
Even the house brand boxes have name brand parts in them, CT doesn't make anything...
Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT'sJimG wrote:
LOL!
Mike
Steve wrote:
What brand(s) of oil filter would you recommend as a "premium lower-micron rated" filter?
That Is the WORST thing you could do !!!! huh? To do so correctly, you will then have to make SERIOUS modifications to the oil flow system: bigger pump, bigger gallery to the filter, larger bypass circuit and larger/stronger bypass valve.
If you reduce the retention size by half, you will absolutely need a filter that has FOUR times the surface area .... and will have to increase the oil pressure inside the filter OR the bypass will be open
4 times longer than normal ..... lets see how this adds up. 1/4 the filter efficiency, about 1/3 the actual volume of oil filtered, ------ thats 1/12 the gravimetric removal efficiency ..... doesnt sound like a good deal to me. It will also mean that suspended particulate will remain IN the sump free to circulate LONGER inside the oil lube galleries ..... NOT a good idea to use a smaller retention rating filter. .... let you in a dirty filtration industry secret. Only a very few paper mills make the technical resinated paper used in automotive oil filters; and, what you get for retention one day is not the same as the next day due to the 'variability' of 'paper making' .... unless you're willing to pay through the nose for the tech paper. Fram, Mobil1, Wix, etc. DO NOT MAKE THE PAPER .... they all BUY the resinated paper from essentially the SAME supplier(s). So, you tell me which one is better? ..... the one with more paper stuffed inside (but not so stuffed that the pleats touch one another).I will state again (with emphasis) .... the BEST filter in a constantly recirculating filter system is the LARGEST filter you can fit on. Using a smaller retention filter media wont help and actually will make matters MUCH worse! Heres why: the smaller retention media has higher operating pressure drop thus the volumetric flow through the filter is less; reduce the pore size retention by half and the flow rate drops in half or more. The smaller retention media will quifckly plug (because there are exponentially more smaller particles in any fluid and thus will 'plug' the filter faster) .... and the bypass will then open thus you get NO filtration. Reduce the retention size by half and get 1/3 the useful life (debris capacity). In a recirculation mode filtration you are not looking for 'absolute retention' but HOW FAST the entire sump volume turns over .... and heres why (again): all filter media will retain particulate smaller that its 'rating' to a certain percent, each time the fluid passes through the filter a small amount of the smaller than rated particles get captured, the MORE fluid (faster) that is able to flow through the media the more opportunity for capture (at all levels of retention). The LARGER the filter the faster the total volumetric flow (because of less resistance) and you will move MORE oil.
For instance, you could use compressed pubic hair as the filtration media and ***recirculate*** (Keyword here!) enough times that you will eventually trap every particle down to macro-molecular size .... just give me enough time to do it. Since there isnt enough pubic hair in the world (because of it inefficiency to filter), the filter folks use the same media that is used to filter BEER and you know how clean beer is ..... and the more BEER you drink, the more pubic hair there is on the ground to collect.
Oil Filters do NOT work like screen doors; ........ many many particles larger then the 'rating' will pass right through while many particles much less than the 'rating' will be captured (statistical averages) .... the BEST filter in a recirculating oil system is the LARGEST filter ,,,, the bypass will be open less time and MORE (total) gallons oil will **actually** go through the filter thus the filter will be more efficient in capture efficiency, etc. Filters do NOT work like screen doors; they have surface area AND "thickness/depth' of the media. The mechanisms of retention INSIDE the filter are 1. seiving (screen door); 2. inertial impaction of the fluid stream inside the media, and 3. surface adsorbtion (electronic charge). Put on the LARGEST filter that will fit: NOT the filter with a 'tighter' 'pore size rating'. .... and you WILL get retention of smaller particles (smaller than the 'rating), you will capture MORE crud, and will filter MORE total oil (bypass not open as much). It gets better: with a larger filter and MORE oil actually going through the filter, if you have a 'crash' instide the engine that creates a 'particle storm' , since the larger filter is filtering the oil FASTER, the particles will get trapped faster thus the particles will decrease in the lube circuit FASTER, much faster. Change to a smaller retention filter .... and the 'storm' removal back to 'normal' becomes VERY slow.
******* Now if someone could tell me where on this particular planet I can find different thickness/diameter powerpiston metering rods for an Old Rochester 2SE carb I would appreciate it - they arent the same rods used in a Q-Jet, and no one at the stealership remembers what a carb looks like.
FrankW did pass the time by typing:
You have to respect a car parts place that also sells microwaves and blenders, eh.
This is our local c-tire type store.
Campbell, don't regret your post. This has stirred up opinions that are great to review and sometimes practical. Everyone has their reason(s) for using a motor oil of their choice, whither it be passed from father to son, advertisements, or just a personal study with recommendations from mechanics. I went with a self imposed study of motor oils and ended up using Valvoline Dura Blend (synthetic blend) 5w 30. Like you, I like the performance of my oil of choice ! But, I do think the hard study goes to the oil filter. I've used CarQuest (Wix) filters and found they are very acceptable in an independent research of oil filters. O' yes, my oil and filter are changed every 3k miles. My TJ 4 banger just might run for ever, well until the Gladiatior hits the dealer's lot. Tom T
Nice post, Mike. About 12 years ago my depertment was responsible for printing the owners literature and associated stuff for a high-end import brand. To reduce cost of ownership and stay competitive with Lexus our engineers ok'd 10k oil change / maintenance intervals, Our dealers when berzerk due to potential loss of revenue. One of the engineeers met with the dealer parts & service committe and gave a presentation on this topic that was fascinating. He stated the combination of modern metallurgy, computerized machine tools, modern lubricants and filter technology meant that a contemporary engine could be run under normal conditions around 15k between oil & filter changes without detrimental effect. Well, the dealers went nuts anyway so we rolled the interval back to 7,500. Both BMW & Mercedes use a computerized maintenance reminder system. Using synthetic oil the Benz system will recommend a change interval between 10k - 20k miles. I noted with the MB I leased between 2000 and 2004 that the system tended to average about 14k. Since they were paying for maintenencce and I had no plans to keep the thing, I followed their recommendation and never had a problem The thing never used a drop of oil, either. Me, Hell, I'm old fashined and change the oil & filter on my Jeeps at 3k!
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