The 2" I got with the AAL's just doesn't flex like I want it to. I'm checking out the Rubicon Express 3.5" (w/rear springs) and the Rubicon Express 4.5". Both are the super-flex versions.
Here,
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The 4.5" kit is only $238 more, yet it comes with 1" longer coils, a new track bar, upper control arms, transfer case drop, and front brake lines. It uses the same rear springs as the 3.5" and uses a 1" lift shackle for the rear.
I like the 4.5" kit because it is higher and includes the formentioned, however I'm concerned that I'll need an SYE and break a lot more U-joints with the 4.5" over the 3.5". Will I need an SYE with either?
How much better is the 4.5" over the 3.5"? Will I need a new track bar for the 3.5"? I'm not sure how the 3.5" will work with the stock upper control arms.
If I get the 4.5", can I get away with the stock slip yoke for a while? The above mentioned web site has a longer slip yoke availible. Thoughts on those?
A fellow named Bob Supplee probably has better prices. I bought the RE6030 (3.5 superride w/ full rear leafs) from him for much less than most others offered. I could probably find his contact info if no one else has it.
Bob Supplee (great guy to buy Jeep parts from) owns Supplee 4WD Parts and is at snipped-for-privacy@ionet.net or 405-799-8977. I've been buying most of my stuff from him for 6-7 years now and he has done some amazing/impressive things as part of his normal customer service. I can't recommend Bob highly enough, great delivered prices as well as an honest guy with good mid-western values..
I'm curious if he can beat the price that the I was quoted at that site? It's pretty hard to beat free shocks and free shipping.. I'll def give him a call and see!
I've run the 4.5" for a year and a half without a SYE and have had no failed u-joints.
No. You can use the t-case drop and (if required) angle shims under the rear leafs to run vibe-free on either lift without a SYE.
Exactly one inch better. Plus you get a shiny new track bar, and shiny new rear shackles, and shiny new upper control arms.
No, but you'll need to lower the bracket to maintain proper geometry with the stock bar. Using a longer bar would improve the range of travel.
It should work fine.
Yes.
This long yoke is recommended if you want to put off getting a SYE/CV-shaft. The stock yoke will work, but it has very little slip-spline engagement and is prone to twisting. As an aside, when I chucked my Dana 35 for a 44, the longer pinion made the stock shaft and stock yoke a perfect combination for my lift. To use the stock shaft you have to grind out the armpits between the yoke ears to avoid drive shaft binding at full drop.
Before you buy anything else Carl, ask yourself exactly where you want to end up. Are you content with your 31" tires? If so, the 3.5" lift is ideal. Maybe you should just save up to go straight to the 5.5" kit, SYE/shaft, 33x12.50 tires, cutout flares, offset wheels, 4.56 gears, heavier rear end.
I found that the 4.5" was sort of a sweet spot for getting good performance on limited budget. I was able to fit 33x10.50 tires for great clearance without having to blow cash on new wheels, new flares, new drive shaft, and a fixed yoke conversion. I swapped in 4.10 gears from a junked 4-banger for next to nothing and I was good to go. With the money saved, I was able to build up a Dana 44 with an air locker in my basement at my own pace.
So, if you have future plans for 32" or 33" tires, go with the 4.5" kit. You can later upgrade drive shaft, yoke, tires, wheels, gears, rear end, etc. as time and budget allows.
If you go with the RE 4.5", be sure to first upgrade the base kit with the following options:
Longer yoke. Either the RE one or one pulled from a junkyard YJ.
Heavy duty track bar and bracket.
JKS Quicker sway bar disconnects.
Drop Pitman arm.
Extended rear bump stops.
Degree shims (may or may not need them to tip the pinion down)
Two issues came to mind when I chose my lift; Do I want to run 31" rubber forever? Does the kit allow for future growth?
The 3.5" kit will get you into 31's and you will experience a little rubbing in extreme conditions... not enough to do damage if you take some precautions. Adjust your steering stops and install extended bumpstops. You probably won't experience any vibes, it will look good but you'll never go beyond 31" rubber with any component from that kit.
The 4.5" kit gets you comfortable into 31's and 33's with fender trimming. You will likely get some vibes unless you lower the transfer case or add an SYE.
I decided on the 4.5" kit for my XJ and I was initially drawn to the RE kit because of it's reputation. I decided against the RE kit because of it's components. The RE kit comes with the 3.5" springs, if I ever wanted to go up I would need new springs. The RE kit comes with fixed length upper and lower control arms, again, if I wanted to go up I would need adjustable control arms to correct castor angle. The disco's would need new tubes as well unless I upgraded to JKS at the time of purchase. The adjustable track bar is nice but the frame end comes with a heim joint. These are optimal for flex but don't last long in our salt belt.
I went with the Rusty's 4.5" kit. I'm not trying to sell you on Rusty's but this kit fit the bill for my reasons. The kit comes with 4.5" springs, I can always add shackles or blocks to go up. While it only includes a set of fixed length lower control arms, I can order adjustable uppers to fine tune castor angles - this is necessary even at 4.5" and they should be recommended in the kit. The adjustable track bar comes with a TRE frame end and the heavy duty bushing end (same as the axle end) is available. I believe the heavy duty setup would last the life of the Jeep unless you plan to lift beyond 8".
The bottom line is, my Rusty's kit didn't save me any money initially over the RE kit (adding adjustable uppers and JKS Discos) but I can go up to
6-6.5" lift and keep all my components... just add a budget boost kit to it. (2" spacers or ACOS and 1" block with 1" shackles).
Consider your future plans before you spend any more money. You can save cash by buying a kit but the best lifts are pieced together. If I had to do it over again, I would do:
4.5" RE Coils
4.5" Rustys Leaf Packs Rustys HD Adjustable Track Bar JKS Discos RS 9000 Shocks Rustys Fixed Lower Control Arms Rustys Adjustable Upper Control Arms The are plenty of better components out there but those above cater to my really tight budget and I see the components as being great value.
I almost went with Rusty's for the taller leaf springs, but I found that the RE kit can be ordered with 4.5" springs at no extra charge (actually less if you pass on the shackles). The 4.5" springs cost the same as the
3.5" springs. Then after thinking on it, I decided that performance now was more important than hedging on some future upgrade I might never make, so I opted for the 3.5" springs and all the extra flex that the new longer shackles give me. The point is, RE isn't 'cheaping out' by fitting the 4.5" kit with 3.5" springs and extended shackles. Quite the opposite, it is done for performance and is actually more expensive than
4.5" springs and no shackles.
On thing about the shackle though is that it tips the pinion up. This is good for the SYE, but in my case I had to shim my Dana 35 down a few degrees. When I switched to the XJ Dana 44, no shims (still haven't figured out why it would have a slightly lower pinion angle than the 35
- the perches were left in the stock position). Did you need any shimming with the 4.5" springs?
How are your springs settling? Mine were way high in the rear when new, I suppose to allow for settling. They've dropped a bit in a year, but I've still got a slight nosedive. I recently loaded a 600 lb cast iron fireplace insert and six bags of mortar mix in the back. That much weight had the rear sitting about level with the front.
I also thought about substituting adjustable arms for a few extra dollars, but again couldn't justify the added expense for a 'maybe'. I found that with the fixed upper and lower arms on the RE kit, I've got just the right amount of positive caster.
As for the track bar, I had heard that the 'regular' one that comes with the RE kit had durability issues so I went with the heavy duty bar and bracket. So far so good. No rust apparent on the joint so far, but I do keep the whole undercarriage heavily gooped up over winter.
That's news to me. I called a couple places (admittedly not RE themselves) for quotes and asked why they didn't come with 4.5" springs. Never got a straight answer.
Depending on the construction of the new leaf pack, a longer shackle may limit flex. The good folks at RE have obviously considered this and designed that package accordingly. I don't fully understand the geometry so I won't try to bullshit you with an explanation - I was able to relocate this info on the web. It was very helpful for researching my lift.
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Three strategies for designing lift springs.
Keep the stock spring geometry and just use thicker and stiffer leaves to gain lift. This does give the desired lift but the ride quality is reduced and suspension compliance is reduced.
Retain the stock arc-length (see above) but use more free arch to gain lift (an arched leaf will be stiffer than a similar flat leaf). The advantage of this design is that it will work fine with stock spring shackles.
Keep the stock chord length and instead use a longer free-arch which results in a longer arc-length. For this type of spring, you must use a longer spring shackle or else you may find the stock length shackle will bottom out on the frame and cause excessive stress.
This was the main reason for not going with shackles on my lift. I was not in a position financially to afford an SYE and driveshaft (just did body/paint and engine) and I wanted to keep pinion angle to a minimum. I was fortunate not to need any shims on my 4.5" springs. When they do settle, I may fine tune with 1or 2 degrees but so far it's been good.
Mine are still about 5" (netted about 5.5-6" when installed) over new from factory stock ride height measured from the flare to ground at the hub. I have not done much wheeling, not much city driving for that matter either (no interior right now) but it's had 5 rims and tires in the back for about
7 months now.
That's probably a good decision if you don't foresee adding to you lift in the near future. The Rustys kit only comes with fixed lowers, if you use them your caster WILL be out of whack and you'll need to replace the uppers. This is frustrating and should be explained in the product description. I would probably be better off with stock arms from an alignment point of view. I like the fixed LCA's construction and the dog leg design reduces tire rub but I'll be a lot happier when I get the adjustable uppers installed.
I will be upgrading to the heavy duty bushing end and bracket fairly soon. The TRE end doesn't excite me and it feels restrictive. It seems to bind a bit under load. The track bar itself is the same in both regular and heavy duty variations so I just have to buy the end and bracket to convert.
When I called around, at least one place (maybe mesa4x4 or dpg?) said that sub was no problem. I ended up getting the kit from national4wd in Burlington after they agreed to match the US dealers prices + duty and then chucked in the JKS discos on top.
Great link. Thanks. Kind of makes me wonder if RE is having their cake and eating it too. As far as I know, the 3.5" leafs are the exact same ones that ship with both the 3.5" kit (stock shackle) and the 4.5" kit (extended shackle):
I wonder which of the two configurations it's optimized for. Might also mean that using the 4.5" spring in the 4.5" kit might be suboptimal if it is tuned for the 5.5" kit with shackle. When the snow melts (probably June, another nor'easter blowing in tomorrow), I'll dig up my stock springs and compare arc cord/length, freearch, etc.
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