question on jeep dealer refusing service.

As a car salesman, there's nothing I like more than dealing with a well informed customer. A copy of dealer invoice? Great!! I'll take that anyday over the unrealistic knucklehead who tries to negiotate with ankle shots $3,000 below our cost and then walks out in a huff, muttering obscenities.

With the invoice shopper at least I know:

Gotta love it!

BTW, I've held some very nice grosses and made sizeable commissions on "invoice buyers" who've been extremely satisified with their purchase. It's not always money!

Best regards, Dave Rose Cactus Cowboy Big W>

I think your enjoyment of your job skews your preception of what the public wants, but that's for another day.

It isn't only Saturn that offers "no haggle" deals. The American Automobile Club has a no haggle price program with some dealers too.

cactuscowboy did pass the time by typing:

If you're skilled, you get a lot of extra money from them. Of course you would enjoy that.

Sounds like visiting a car dealership.

Correct. But it's not just the money. I do enjoy negotiating. OTOH, a 'mini deal' and minimum commission is no fun, especially if I've spent a lot of time on that particular deal.

Best regards, Dave Rose Cactus Cowboy Big Wonderful Wyoming '49 Willys Pickup (parts truck) '62 Willys Pickup 4WD 226 '98 XJ Sport O|||||||O

Doug,

Thanks for the link! Black Book is one of the best. Good to see this resource on the web.

Yes, options are an important factor as well. Another factor that some folks overlook on their trades are reconditioning costs. Example: A customer traded his '98 Explorer XLT on an '04 Mustang GT two weeks ago. The Explorer had issues: a broken turn signal lens, broken windshield, one alloy wheel cracked with tire destroyed, four other tires were bald, brakes front and rear were shot, transmission needed flushing, and the vehicle stunk like the bottom of an ashtray. Estimated reconditioning costs were deducted from wholesale book value, arriving at an actual cash value. Due to the customer's negative equity (owed about $3,500 more on the Explorer than what it was worth), we showed full list price on the Mustang and a huge overallowance on his trade. The customer had only $1,000 down and a low credit score, but one of our lenders bought the deal at a very high interest rate. The customer could not have been happier, he got a great deal and he's driving a new Mustang!

Best regards, Dave Rose Cactus Cowboy Big Wonderful Wyoming '49 Willys Pickup (parts truck) '62 Willys Pickup 4WD 226 '98 XJ Sport O|||||||O

My negotiation skills suck. I don't think I _have_ to be skilled in negotiating to spend thousands of my dollars at a dealership. I'm one of those people that just can't seem to say what they need to say, or have the directness needed to be a 'negotiator'. I HATE trying to buy a new car, and it's why I passed on an 02 and bought my 94 YJ from a private sale.

I don't want to own a Saturn. I don't want to limit myself to waiting for the one selected model in an advertised special.I wanted the TJ (sorry Bill) that I wanted but couldn't get the 'deal' that I could have if I had negotiating skills. Should I take a course? Bah.

You sound like a successful salesman for sure. I'm glad you enjoy it. But don't expect the negative comments you're receiving is just because of one bad experience. Not everyone is good at head games or quick with a reply, or has the skills required to take 3k off the asked price.

coop

Do you enjoy taking extra money from elderly or naive people who are not good negotiators or who believe you when you 'negotiate'?

By the way, top posting screws up the continuity of the conversation.

Amen! Wish everyone felt this way.

Ya but when you get a post as long as this one, only having to read the top is nice.

If 'everyone' top posted, there would be no continuity issues.

'If' a browser would let the window open upside down so you got the 'bottom' first and could scroll up, then bottom posting would be cool.

They 'do' make the threads open this way and I use it. I have it open by date at the bottom, so I have to scroll up for old posts.

But seeing as the makers of all the software 'insist' we have to read the posts themselves at the top first, then the last thing pertinent should be right here when you open the window just as the designers decided on.

That only makes sense to me...

My $0.02

Mike

Sleestak wrote:

They could fix it if they wanted to. By being more honest.

But then they couldn't extract higher prices from eldery or naive customers, or those who don't like spending time smiling while listening to salesmen's lies.

Not sure what you mean by "newbie." My first computer was a Timex Simclair

Mike, I hear ya man. Most people top post so I really don't make a big deal outta it. Bottom posting really can be better if done right, though. If you are board, check out the following websites:

Slee

That's a subject that borders on a religion, with all that goes with it.

I personally prefer posting styles that include bottom posting and trimming quoted material, with comments interleaved between points -- one advantage to that style is that the poster has to do some work so the reader doesn't have to, top-posting just means that nobody has to work, especially if your reader software dumps the cursor at the top of the page. But that's just me, and here the majority seem to like top-posting without interleaving responses.

When I'm in Rome, I type with a Romish accent, unless I'm talking to another damned furriner.

If the post I'm replying to is top-posted, I'll do the same. If I'm posting here and I've got a lot of comments that are best read with the material I'm responding to, I'll put a "Bottom posted with replies inserted into original text" note at the top, trim out the dead wood to make it easy on the reader and post away.

But that's just me.

Of course I meant "bored."

Yes, I had the English Timex Simclair in '82, then our Commodore