What does the Mechanic get

Yeah, it's that, too. Unless you don't want to have warranty service, or your recall performed.

Jerry

I can't speak for anyone else, but I also take personal responsibility for what I do. You, as an owner, may have to talk to the service manager to get your complaint heard, but if it has to do with something that I did as a tech, I get to hear about it as soon as you leave his office, and probably fix it for free, if indeed it is something that I missed or destroyed. In that regard, I also do it for free if it isn't right, just like a certified weldor. If there is a history of problems like that, I become unemployed.

I also find the fastest and easiest way to do things; that is my livelihood, being able to do it faster and as good or better than the guy next to me.

And, of course, Nathan, I meant NET. What else is there?

Jerry

Thanks for the info on the Aurora. It is unusual, indeed, to experience those sorts of trans problems, and you are probably right concerning the root cause. Aurora was an awesome car to drive, they handle like they are on rails, but I never got attached to the way they look. Sometimes it takes a couple of years for a new model to grow on me, but Aurora never did. The later model Auroras are a little sleeker, but like all Oldsmobiles, they are going away soon. Better get yours before they are gone for good.

I was an Arizona native until 2001, when we loaded up the RV and moved to New Hampshire. I had never been here prior to moving, we just kind of looked at some statistics on education and health, and looked at the map, and decided New England was for us. I do miss Arizona's winter wheeling... too hot in summer to do anything but go to the lake. I don't miss the pollution and crowded-ness of the Phoenix area, though. I have always wanted to visit Canada, and maybe now we will have a better opportunity, seeing that we are only a couple of hours from the border.

I appreciate your open minded-ness, and the fact that you don't paint all dealership guys with the same brush. Being a mechanic has been good to me, financially and otherwise. It afforded me the chance to pick where I wanted to live in the country, for one thing. It gives me a lot of flexibility with my work hours, and I get to meet a lot of nice folks and drive their cars. I am getting a little older, and I sometimes think that I shouldn't be doing this anymore, but I can still outrun these little whippersnaps on these jobs, so as long as I am doing that, I suppose I will stay in the game. Still beats being a desk jockey, no offense.

Out of curiosity, did you pull the engine on the Aurora, like you said, or did you drop it out the bottom? Kinda hard to drop it if you don't have a rack, but you never know.

Jerry

professionals,

electrical/electronic

You know, Nate, I wouldn't expect you to weld up a bumper for cheap. Why would you expect me to work on your car for cheap? I work from the flat rate book. What the book says the job should pay is what I get, whether or not I finish the job in the time the book gives.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

I've worked for GM dealers for almost 20 years in 3 different states. I've never in that time drawn a salary. It's all piecework. I get paid so much per job based on the times allowed in the Motor Labor time guide. If I go up to the service drive, hook a scanner to your vehicle and read the codes, I'm doing it for free unless there's a repair order written ont he vehicle. That is why there is a minimum charge for diagnostics.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

hi wally, read what ive said again. im not asking you to work for free or even "cheap". im referencing gross abuse such as what i listed in the original post that you responded to. ill quote it again below.

you arent always paying for what someone does, youre paying for what they know.......i realize this having worked in the service industry for much of my adult life (both in the welding and hvac field). what you should never pay for though, is inefficiency and ineptness.

i wish more shared our work ethic.

bankruptcy. ;-)

i dont think we're all that different in our thinking or work ethic, we were talking about the same issue from totally different angles. unless hes a destructive idiot i have _far_ more respect for the tech in the pits than i do the man in the office thats calling the shots.

Don't know much about Fords as I've worked for GM for the last 19 years, but I do know that sometimes GM comes down and tells us not to repair something, but to replace the unit. This goes along with the fact that I would do things to fix my own vehicles that I wouldn't do to fix yours. I don't mind going to Auto Zone 4 times to get a good alternator for my Jeep, but I sure wouldn't put one on yours and have to stand behind it.

I feel like there's more to this than is being told. Most GM alternators pay under an hour in the flat rate book. I'd like to see AZ put an alternator on a Monte Carlo with the 3.4 DOHC motor for free...that one pays 4 hours as you have to practically remove the motor to get to it.

Everybody is human. We all make mistakes(that's why they x-ray your welds). When I make a mistake and the vehicle comes back, I have to do the repair for free. Now I don't know about you, but I don't like working for free, so I tend to take my time, make sure the customer and I are on the same wave length in regards to what's wrong with his/her car(a big part of the problems most people have with repair facilities)and try to get the thing fixed right the first time. Whether you know it or not, GM tracks my performance(yes, GM, not just the dealership)and the service manager gets a report every month as to how I'm doing. This is the same for every GM dealer in the country. In fact, if I was to move to another state, the guy at the dealership that I apply to out there can access that info to decide if he wants to hire me. That doesn't happen at Joe's Garage.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a shop foreman at a mid sized shop. I'm back turning wrenchs and would rather be there than anywhere else in the dealership. I was thinking of applying to technical assistance, but not only do you have to have the OK from the dealer to apply to GM, you have to move to Flint MI, where they just had like a foot of snow. I'll stay in Arkansas, I guess. We haven't had any snow at all...yet.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

Hey, Old Crow, it's like you read my mind. It is absolutely true that GM will sometimes advise dealers against repairing some components. It also absolutely true that I wouldn't want to stand behind it if I did.

Nathan, if I had been the guy with the cylinder head, and I had made the repair you talked about instead of replacing the head, I have suddenly put myself in the position of guaranteeing that repair. Six months later, if it comes back with a crack in it, or another plug blown out, or the same one blown out, I am then crucified for making some kind of hack repair to the head instead of replacing it. To hell with that, every time I try to save somebody a buck, it ends up costing me two.

Another fella mentioned that AC compressor that simply needed a new clutch, but the dealer wanted to replace the whole thing. Same principal applies. Say I agree to do the clutch. I pull the clutch off, then I see that the snout of the compressor is nearly destroyed. I then have to decide whether to put the clutch on anyway, and make the customer happy, or call him up and piss him off and tell him to buy a compressor. I don't win. In fact, if I just put the clutch on, and it fails a month from now, I am then in the position of buying him the compressor that he should have paid for in the first place. Now, not only did I not win, I lost to the tune of $500 out of pocket. I use this example specifically because I have had this specifically happen to me.

In a dealer, you have to make a repair that will be warrantable at GM dealerships across the country. If I "backyard" a repair to save you a couple of bucks, and it fails, the next GM dealership isn't obligated to stand behind my gas station BS. And I wouldn't expect them to.

You gotta walk a mile in my shoes before you characterize dealer mechanics, Nate.

Jerry

for claritity im not characterizing the mechanics. i dont like many of the policies coming down from the man in the office whos never had his hands greasy.

Roughly 1/16/04 02:29, Old Crow's monkeys randomly typed: No kidding. I spent 3 years as a service manager, and another as a

Doesn't GM still have technical brains out scattered around the country in regional offices? e.g. while living in Nebraska, I managed to make the acquaintance thru the dealer of one of these folks who had an office in Kansas City, and was a guru on hopping up the turbocharged Corvairs without blowing them up. Had a title of something similar to Zone Technical Rep or something, and had been a hotrodder in a previous incarnation.

Yeah, the name has changed, but there is still a network of factory dudes that come around and try to take money away from us. Just today, as a matter of fact, the factory dude tried to charge my shop back a few hundred bucks because I replaced rod bearings while overhauling a Northstar engine. He says to reuse the bearings. See what I have to put up with?

Jerry

wheeling...

After 14 years with various Chevy dealers in Arizona, California, and Arkansas, I recently(within the last 6 months)crossed over and I now work for Crane Pontiac, Buick and GMC in Conway, Arkansas. Previous to my dealership jobs I spent time as a mechanic at an Exxon station(showing my age here), at various tire stores, and even a

4x4 shop in Flagstaff. I used to post a lot over on the Chevy 4x4 truck group, but moved over here after I replaced my wrecked S-10 with a '95 YJ.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

OK, look at it this way; It might be wasteful, but, if I fix the clutch only, it's covered for 12 months 12k miles *at my dealership*. If I replace the whole compressor, it's covered by GM's lifetime warranty at any dealer in the country. Which is a better deal for you? I might replace the clutch only on my own vehicle, or I might do one for you in your driveway for a case of coldbeer, but at the shop I'm going to do the whole compressor if I can.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

Ain't it grand! There's something else we have to put up with that people don't understand. Just before Christmas, ours wanted to charge me back the labor for a hub that I replaced on a Jimmy because I didn't turn the old part back in to the parts dept. Finally gave up on it when I explained that when I did the job, it was supposed to be customer pay, so when the car left I shitcanned the old part. Not my fault if the customer's father pitched such a fit that the SM goodwilled the repair after the trash guy had been here.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51

Heck, I do that every night so I can get my back to straighten out enough so I can go to work the next day.

-- Old Crow '82 Shovelhead FLT 92" 'Pearl' '95 Jeep YJ Rio Grande ASE Certified Master Auto Tech + L1 TOMKAT, BS#133, SENS, MAMBM, DOF#51