D90 pick up driving position

On or around 29 Oct 2005 13:04:16 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com enlightened us thusly:

depends in what way you find it cramped. I'm afraid LR seating position is rather a case of you adapt to the vehicle...

by ditching the centre seat you can fit wider seats, but you need to choose 'em carefully so as not to compromise other things like legroom, kneeroom, height from pedals and so on.

And it's all a bit dependant on the size you are too - Austin's had to do a bit more adapting than I have, so a seat that I find acceptable may well be unsuitable for him.

That aside my ex boss (at 6'3" tall) finds a standard Defender comfortable enough.

Got a 110 am 6' 2" and 16 stone never had a comfort problem.

I had a similar problem when I bought my tdi.

I fitted a pair of extension seat rails (see

) and this solved my problemsby allowing the drivers seat to go back that extra couple of inches. Italso improved the view of the road noticeably through being an inch higher,which surprised me.

There are ways of taking out the bulkhead behind the seats but this starts to be major modification, although it will let the seat recline further. See for example

or lookunder the accessories page on . Beyond that I've taken out the centre seat which gives a bit more space. This was partly because I was planning to put in a centre cubby (which I've not got round to yet) and partly because in fitting the seat rails I had to remove the mounting for the seat belt for the centre seat. It was easier to remove the seat for the MOT than refit the seat belt!

Hope this helps,

M.

On or around Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:32:24 +1300, EMB enlightened us thusly:

Although interestingly, the SIII is better than the defender was as standard, using standard seats.

Mainly because the doors are a lot thinner! JD

On or around Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:08:59 +1100, JD enlightened us thusly:

Well, compares to the latest offerings, yes. But the early 110 doors are much like series ones. I was thinking mostly of the seat angles and so on.

My mate is over 6ft tall and finds his 90 pickup cramped because the seat travel is limited by the bulkhead behind it. When he drives my 110 CSW the seat goes right back and he's OK. You might be better off with a 90 station wagon and remove the rear seats for more load area.

Andy Fox

110 V8 CSW

On or around Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:17:54 -0000, "Andy Fox" enlightened us thusly:

90SW still has a bulkhead, doesn't it? Although it can be removed.

There's very little you can do for and aft otherwise LR would have done it long ago. What we need is a new model with a bigger cab. What we are going to get is no change on the body front for quite a while. New sales will continue to decline at the expense of Japanese brands.

Huw

Ahem...... a drop of 68 vehicles is hardly worth mentioning. Also, if you read the article very carefully, that is only the UK market and so ignores countries like Jordan who buy quite a lot for their army, and the overseas plants in Turkey, Marocco, etc etc where there is a mixture of CKD and assembly with varying amounts of local content, and vehicles supplied to NGO's and Embassies/Consulates around the world.

Also on that site is a statement (lost the link, buggerit) that states that the new Defender will be buit on the Discovery III platform to arrive in 2008, in which case they can keep it as far as I'm conncerned

- I want a work vehicle not a poser truck!

Anyway, compared to Ford's other "Premier Group" marques, Land Rover is doing rather well.

Richard

What it doesn't tell you is the market share compared to the Japanese branded pick-up trucks which have been gaining volume at an outstanding rate. There will always be a core of loyal customers for Defender who need the towing ability which is not supplied by the competition. That is not to say that many wouldn't welcome a better and more modern vehicle to do the job which would also appeal to those that have left the brand and potentially win them back.

So do I and I can't see any reason why a Discovery based truck should not be a huge advance as a work truck.

If you say so and good job too. They certainly have modern class leading vehicles [apart from Defender] and deserve to do well with those products. Their build quality and reliability issues seem to be under control and my experience of the latest Range Rover over nearly twenty thousand miles is that it has been faultless. Not only is it a superb luxury car but is peerless as a work vehicle. If any new Defender can be built in several variants, has comfort and reliability while not sacrificing work potential over a long life, then it would be a certain winner as long as it was reasonably cost competitive.

Huw

Regards

Neil

Thanks for the input guys, I will probably go for the pick-up, just for the upgade-ability of it. Might just get a transit for work!

The current Jap etc trend trucks are being sold to the life-style brigade, who were buying Frontera's, Terrano's etc. They have no desire, or need, for a Defender. LR's other models are all doing well in these sectors.

I can - wrong engine philosphy, welded "semi-moncoque" (far less easy to repair), body panels without the rather miraculous ability of Defender and Series to be bashed without bending too much, crappy modern bumpers that cant be used as work benches/tools/ladders, reduced departure/attack angles, lower driving position, mud-free interior with loads of plastic bits to break, etc etc.

Lend it to me for a week then - I'll do what I do with my Defender, and try out a few tasks around customers farms. I won't however, pay the repair bill (sticking a rear crosmember, with extensions, in the back is going to be a few hundred to start with, stand on the bonnet to prune a few trees, open gates with front bumper..... etc etc). You can't even put a cup of tea on the wing! Utterly inappropriate for my uses, and those of the majority of our customers. I think we have a completly different view of what a work vehicle is.

But it wont - it'll be aimed at the "double-cab" life-style trendies and Chelsea Tractor brigade - the rest of the LR range has left its roots well and truly behind, so there's no reason to suppose any new Defender will buck this trend.

Richard

Some go to that market of course, but around here that is a minor market and most go to farmers, builders, engineers, and public utilities; the same customers who should be buying LR products. What is wrong with LR also gaining further customers from the 'life-style' brigade anyhow? They already have a big market, in fact a leading position in that sector yet they effectively let others have a major slice without a fight.

Engines are dictated by emmission legistlation so there will be no return to 'simple' TDi200 type engines.

welded "semi-moncoque" (far less easy to

I can't see why that should be more of an issue for LR than for the opposition. If it is involved in a serious chassis-bending accident it will invariably be an insurance claim.

body panels without the rather miraculous ability of Defender

You must be joking? My LR is made of thin alloy that dents if you sneeze on it. It has so many dents on it that it can only ever get worse by having a serious bending. I cannot see how that would be much different with a Disco based Defender. To illustrate this I have to say that my RR has a dented wing and door already and I anticipate more in future. Oh, and it also has a scratched front bumper where it drove into a low static machine and a crease in the back bumper where it reversed into a heavy cattle crush. I suspect what you are more worried about is bending something new. There are more important things to worry about.

crappy modern bumpers

The bumpers will not be likely to protrude as does the present vehicle. The angles underneath are not known because it has not been built yet and anyhow are not critical unless they are totally inadequate IYSWIM. I have lived 21 years with a 110 hi-cap with a tow hitch behind and any new vehicle is likely to be better than that. As for fragile plastics, well the present Defender has plenty of that, including plastic seats that the dog puts its claws through and which cracks and breaks up in short order. Hopefully the new one will have better quality, roomier, more comfortable interiors with doors that have concealed hinges that don't sag and seams that don't leak and stops that don't shear off easily.

For my sins and among other things, I do farm myself. A proper working farm with triple axle 16ft ifor williams boxes to carry over 200 cattle, long fencing poles to carry, steep banks to traverse etc. I also have a Defender

110, a RR, a Trooper, a Terrano, and a Cruiser Amazon to compare with. I have also run other Defenders, another couple of Range Rover classics, a Disco, a Shogun, a Subaru, a Mitsu pick-up and others to compare with.

I won't however, pay the repair

Although I have never done this with either Defender or RR, or anything else come to think of it, I can see no reason why not. It is however a lazy man's way of doing things and shows little respect for the machine. I have never heard of this complaint from owners of 'Japanese' trucks either and I seriously suspect that it has never occured to them that it is acceptable to use the bonnet as a platform for themselves to work on.

open gates with front bumper..... etc etc). You can't even

Well you can with the Disco and RR, on the bonnet anyhow. Most gates around here, between fields anyhow, seldom swing on hinges and if they do they have latches or baler twine to hold them shut. Having said that, I do use the front tyre of tractors in such a way occassionaly but every time I tried with a LR the bumper missed an upright and the gate either hit the wing or hooked onto the bumper, so it is not effective anyhow.

It seems so. You want a retro toy and I want something that works efficiently and reliably while providing my drivers and myself with the comfort and safety that they deserve. It would also be nice if fence posts fitted properly in the back, which is why I run a hi-cap which regularly carries two four foot round bales of silage in the back.

Any new Defender is pie in the sky. I seriously doubt whether it will be replaced by anything more than a rebadged and slightly modified Ford pick-up truck. That is if they wish to compete in the utility market at all.

Huw

We saw this with carburetors being replaced by fuel injection. Are you now saying that conventional diesel injection cannot meet emissions regulations so electronic and common rail will be the only methods used in future for diesels?

AJH

Is this new? There was a tax break which meant buying one of these, as long as payload was over 1 tonne, got you a family car and reclaim the VAT.

AJH

On or around Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:39:12 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd enlightened us thusly:

Hellova lot of the trendy lifestyle doublecab pickups appearing round here, often towing 3-axle sheep trailers. There *are* new LRs, but reltively few. I daresay the double-cap trucks make a good towing vehicle and a good farm truck, although personally I wouldn't fancy reversing a trailer with one, 's bad enough with a 110 with improved lock (like mine was).

I don't see why they can't build a suitably-tough body onto the disco platform, presuming they want to. What will go in that case is the SWB version, which would be a shame. Of the new defnders I *do* see around here, most are 90s - and I can't see them making a special shortened disco 3 platform just for a Ute. Mind, they might see a market for a sporty small disco 3-based thing to replace the freeloader... but I understood that the freeloadre replacement was going to be on a vovlo platform.

'course, we could all talk to Santana and suggest they resurrect the SWB chassis. If I were in the market for a new 110, I'm reaosnably convinced it'd be Santana not LR, these days - cheaper and a damned good looking truck.

Perhaps Santana can get a licence from Ford to build 90s?