OT: Auto Gearboxes - general

It's a good point. When I switch from the Landy to the Alhambra (DMFW), I usually stall it at least once. Even though it's nominally got far higher power output, it's got nothing at low revs, and the gentle manoeuvres I do in the Landy, for parking etc, just aren't possible without a lot of revving in the other thing.

If you rev it, it's fun to drive, but that's the only driving style that works. You can't be laid back, and my usual thing of crawling up to the end of the queue on red lights (so I never actually stop moving), is really hard to achieve as the Alhambra doesn't like the revs set really low and just won't pull, despite being much lighter weight.

It's 1.9 litre versus 2.5, both having turbos, standard factory intercoolers and four cylinders.

Oh yea, I forgot, that one always makes me cringe.

-- Jon

Bloody mondeo tdci I always seem to stall them.

-- Jon

Shite engines.

So, here I am the OP. Tomorrow I almost certainly have to make the final decision after going round and round in circles and asking question after question. Another major factor was the count of available pennies.

My auto Disco 300tdi is fine but I want to spread the load by getting something reliable in car shape. We seem to have descended into a straight choice between an 07 Focus estate 1.8tdci, or, with a real stretch of the budget, an 06 Octavia 1.9 estate. Both manual. Both have DMF's and whatever we get will have to survive getting in and out of our path, which involves a 90deg standing start turn backwards uphill and almost blindly across the pavement. Both from main agents, with 1 year warranty.

I've driven the Skoda and like it, drove a Focus hatch which felt OK. Can't yet drive the Focus estate because the dealer is having to replace the flywheel. It's up in the air and I've only been able to inspect the underneath

The parameters are.......

1. Have to replace the auto Omega before it collapses completely, so within the next day or two.
2. Want diesel
3. SWMBO wants a reasonably new car.
4. Must have a proper spare wheel.
5. Must have space for long legged driver plus non-nimble person in back seat behind driver (this rules out most small cars).

6 Must be low car tax. I'm paranoid about the potential combination of incompetent political parasites and fanatical, utterly misguided greens.

Has anyone any views about which would be the least bad of the above 2 to go for to get something that will be reliable and maintainable for about a 10 year life? Is the 1.9 TDI PD VAG diesel simpler than the 1.8 tdci Ford? Are both drive trains as bad?

It's so, so, so depressing.

Interesting.

I have a Mazda6 TS2 estate as a works car, same engine 2.2 Eurosomething

160bhp turbo etc as the current Mondao's. Low speed manouvering etc at idle, wonderfuly easy, even up slopes and kerbs etc. In some ways easier than the LR109/110 hybrid (200TDi), there again, the car is a fraction the weight of the LR...

Dave B.

While I think about it, something else to avoid, especially in your particular situation re. the drive are these blooming electric handbrakes. Talk about making things complicated just for the sake of it.

Gordon, again.

In message , gordon writes

Well, after asking everywhere I could find on the 'net, I've gone for a manual Skoda 1.9tdi to complement the auto Disco. I don't think there's any electric in the handbrake. Part of the decision was based on reading that there is an official manufacturer's single mass flywheel available, and a clear statement from the dealer that the DMF is covered by the warranty. I couldn't find a suitable DSG auto version at a price I could afford and with sufficient warranty to make it a justifiable gamble.

It judders when reversing out of the 90 degree uphill path with 2 passengers aboard unless I rev more than I think good and slip the clutch. I have this mad horror that one day I'll accelerate to get a smooth clutch action in reverse and the turbo will kick in....... Still, it looks like a substantial hedge across the road. Also on the motorway in top I trundle along at 60 fine, slow down to

40mph/1500rpm then accelerate in top and it judders frighteningly. Change down and it's OK.

But I'm getting better with it and even the family members, frightened by the concept of me in a manual car after all these years, seem to think I'm causing less whiplash.

FWIW my father in law is about to sue VAG over the miss-selling of a new Golf. He is unable to use his left arm effectively and has been driving automatics for many years. He was unable to test the Golf when choosing it as (a) he was recovering from a stroke and (b) the dealer did not have one with an auto box. Anyway, he bought one without discovering or being told about 'hill assist'. This, IMHO, is the most inappropriate name I have ever encountered. As far as we can discover, once 'D' is engaged you can accelerate for approx. 2 seconds before all power is cut and the car freewheels even though it is in drive. His drive slopes up to the road at about 40deg. Since August he has managed about 60 miles in the Golf! Driving it in traffic on a hill or parking on a slope are an absolute nightmare. Has anyone else driven one of these dreadful gearboxes?

Richard

FWIW my father in law is about to sue VAG over the miss-selling of a new Golf. He is unable to use his left arm effectively and has been driving automatics for many years. He was unable to test the Golf when choosing it as (a) he was recovering from a stroke and (b) the dealer did not have one with an auto box. Anyway, he bought one without discovering or being told about 'hill assist'. This, IMHO, is the most inappropriate name I have ever encountered. As far as we can discover, once 'D' is engaged you can accelerate for approx. 2 seconds before all power is cut and the car freewheels even though it is in drive. His drive slopes up to the road at about 40deg. Since August he has managed about 60 miles in the Golf! Driving it in traffic on a hill or parking on a slope are an absolute nightmare. Has anyone else driven one of these dreadful gearboxes?

Umm either there is a fault, or your F_I_L is not driving it correctly?

The Hill assist systems work really well, and easily- I have one in my BMW (albeit with manual box).

Normal method of use is you hold the brake down for 2 seconds whist in Drive (or in gear, clutch depressed), then move to the gas pedal giving it afew revs taking up the 'slack', and after about 1.5 seconds the brakes automatically release gradually allowing you to move off without rolling in the other direction. You can use it in forwards or reverse.

Simples.

Tim.

Tim, does the BM engine die if you accelerate against the footbrake in D? How do you move slowly, i.e at creeping speed, uphill?

We suspect a design fault with the Golf. The sequence of selecting D (with footbrake depressed) follow by releasing the parking brake, followed by moving foot from footbrake to throttle allows the car to freewheel backwards down his drive (when parked tail down). It's difficult to describe properly but here goes: If I try to to get if off the drive by using both feet - something I do with my RR with a 'tired' torque converter - I find that the engine revs are cut if they are raised above about 1100 when the footbrake is held and no further pressure on the throttle has any effect and the car rolls. It's almost as though the revs are being cut to protect the torque converter from overheating.

Richard

Peugeot diesels (well, most of the newer electronically-controlled ones anyway) do this as well. Brake whilst on the throttle and they cut engine power. Pain in the ass for getting heat into a diesel to get it through a pathetically useless emissions test....! Badger.

So, how do you move them on a slope or on a slope in traffic?

Richard

By driving normally, the way you were taught, ustilising clutch, parking brake, footbrake and throttle in one seamless movement, lol. Seriously, I think you can feather in a certain ammount of throttle with the brake applied before the computer starts reducing engine power, certainly enough to make an auto pull away on a hill either backwards or forwards. As soon as you have the load on the throttle, you shouldn't be using the brake anyway, you should use throttle control (and clutch control on a manual). Badger.

Heh heh.

I can _just about_ balance the throttle/brake combo to enable the Golf to crawl up the drive. Neither parent's in law have sufficient delicacy of movement to enable them to move it. AND I thought that two-foot operation was frowned upon by them as are supposed to know what they are talking about. Something to do with confusion when swapping twixt manual and auto IIRC.

Seriously (also!) see my contribution on 23 Dec 20:26 as to how the Golf behaves. There is _no_ 'grip' (drive without actual vehicle movement) from the torque converter with the engine at idle, there is only drive between slightly above idle and about 1,100 rpm. If the vehicle isn't moving by the time the revs reach 1,100 the revs are cut and the vehicle rolls backwards. Scary!

Richard

In message , Richard Savage writes

Hi Hugh

Agree with the above - and I have no trouble with 'normal' i.e. without stupid and necessary technical interference auto boxes. I can just about move the *******ing Golf off the drive despite the aggravation of 'hill assist' - a misnomer if ever there was one. Unfortunately, my parent's in law do not have the finesse (due to age not stupidity) to balance the revs against the brakes. Neither can use a handbrake with any subtlety - it's either on or off - due to shoulder and elbow injuries. By comparison with the Golf they have a SAAB 95 Auto which they drive with great gusto.

No one seems to be picking up on the way that the Golf cuts the revs when they rise above about 1,100 when the vehicle is stationary.

Richard

Probably because no one has any experience of this facility, including myself. It's mentioned in the handbook of my Boxer based motorcaravan but I haven't got it fitted. AIUI it holds on the brakes to prevent the vehicle rolling backwards for a specified number of seconds after the handbrake is released. As soon as you press the accelerator presumably it should disengage. I'm not sure if or how it works trying to reverse up a hill.

I tried a little experiment on my normal auto this morning. If you apply the brakes when stationary and press the accelerator then the revs will only rise to about 1200 - there's a V8 on the front end so I didn't press too far. If you go above that then something's got to give so it doesn't seem unreasonable for your Golf not to go above 1100. But with hill start assist at that point the brakes should come off and the revs should rise as required. I can only suggest you go back to VW and ask them to demonstrate how it is supposed to be used. Maybe they haven't thought it through on an auto.

Sorry not to be of much help.

Hi Hugh

Regarding your auto experiment; there is, I presume, nothing to stop you flooring the throttle (when in Drive) and depressing the footbrake for all you are worth until the torque converter or UJ fails, is there? This is what I think the hill assist on the Golf is trying to prevent. However, it just doesn't seem to deliver. Regarding going back to VW; the dealer sent one of the workshop staff to visit the P-I-L to replace the number plates because the wrong pair had been fitted. He couldn't get the car off the drive either without major faffing. And this was driving up it (they park the cars tail- down on their drive)

Moral: don't buy a VW Golf with hill assist without testing it to make sure that it does what you expect.

Richard