Re: On Topic-ish Rover V8 Info request

Wondered where you had gone until the influx of mails the other day.

I've sent you a mail.

On the injection front. I want to be able to control fuelling and ignition exactly rather than a dizzy. Also, being able to have 8 single or 4 double coils would be good.

Fully programmable engine management is nothing to be scared of. LR OEM GEMS/MEMS is scary. Don't want that.

Also, it means I can go 4.2 or 4.6 with no real increase in physical dimension.

Cheers

Paul

My90 wrote:

> About time you got around to doing that Paul. What abot fiixing ter Landie > first. > > Facny a beer sometime. > > Damian > > btw I personally would stick with the carbs. Lot less to go wrong >
Reply to
megalowmania
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Std set-up bank-fires the injectors, the ign being triggered by the pickup in the dizzy. My mate runs a DTA race system on his motor and that gives you control over fuelling and ignition, with various correction factors to play with!! If my memory serves me right I think it works on a 16x16 matrix, throttle pos'n against rpm. Can't remember if there's a MAP sensor or not. You'll be amazed at the available torque at lower rpm's when you get the ign advancing more. Badger.

Reply to
Badger

Did the RR and disco keep the same system through it's life span. Did the 3.5 3.9 4.0 4.2 and 4.6 all have the same basic setup. Seems odd.

Either way, I'm sure I could incorporate this into my design.

I was thinking along the lines of a low pressure boost twin turbo system going in as well at a later date. Have to wait and see. Much more into the planning stage at the moment.

Thanks for the info.

Paul

Reply to
megalowmania

AFAIK, all 3.5/3.9 bank fire, I think the later 4.0/4.6 may be sequential, certainly the "Thor" engines.

Make sure you use low compression pistons.. I'd also strongly suggest a head stud kit as personally I'm fed up replacing 4.0/4.6 head gaskets on std compression!!! I've also heard of problems if you turbo the vitesse spec heads, the waisted stem exhaust valves can't cope, apparently.

Anytime. Badger.

Reply to
Badger

On later systems they do - a sensor in the side of the bell housing senses the movement of the flywheel. The earlier injection systems don't (3.5 "flapper" system, 3.9 "hotwire" system). You don't want to know just how diabolically primitive Land Rover EFi systems are :-) Up until GEMS they use no injection timing at all - just pickup a pulse from the coil and open the injectors once every 8 pulses for an amount of time determined by the air flow, throttle, temperature and lambda sensors... hopefully the fuel hangs around in the trumpet long enough for the cylinder to suck it in !

Earlier systems use 2 banks of 4 injectors fired simultaneously. This is not timed to the engine other than through the counting of ignition pulses from the coil (see above).

The 4.6 GEMS system is as state of the art as Land Rover have got, sequential injection, ignition system also controlled by the ECU, knock sensors (one in each bank), crankshaft sensor, speed sensor. 4 ignition coils fired by the ECU using a waste spark system. Obviously Lambda and air flow with throttle position too.

Earlier systems are very low tech by EFi standards with the EFi only controlling fuel, no control of the ignition at all. Only inputs are air flow, throttle, temperature and ignition pulses from the single coil. Cat systems obviously use a closed loop with a Lambda sensor for each bank above certain RPM/temp/speed. Speed sensors were also introduced with the cats.

Personally I'd go for an after market controller so you can use the sensors you want to... getting rid of the air flow sensor (use a MAPS sensor and throttle sensor instead) makes installation a LOT easier in a confined space like a kit car. An distributor type 4.6 and an after market ECU would be the dogs bits IMV.

cheers

Dave W.

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Reply to
Dave White

->The 4.6 GEMS system is as state of the art as Land Rover have got,

->sequential injection, ignition system also controlled by the ECU, knock

->sensors (one in each bank), crankshaft sensor, speed sensor. 4 ignition

->coils fired by the ECU using a waste spark system. Obviously Lambda and

->air flow with throttle position too.

That will be why the engine stops near water..........................:-)

Reply to
Geoff

Thanks Dave , thats exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

So , I'm looking at a 4.6 with the knock sensors and crankshaft sensors.

Now I know.

Cheers

Paul

Reply to
megalowmania

Nice to see you active on this group Geoff. Is this due to the birth of Wild Thing.

And luckily this motor will be what is commonly called a fair weather vehicle ;-)

Cheers

Paul

PS. I will try and attend an Anoraks event. Soon. I've been on the mailing list for a few years and have still not managed to make one event.

Reply to
megalowmania

Hi Paul,

->Nice to see you active on this group Geoff. Is this due to the birth of

->Wild Thing.

Looks like I've been outed ;-) it's close but I only just have more Suzuki's then Land Rovers !

->PS. I will try and attend an Anoraks event. Soon. I've been on the

->mailing list for a few years and have still not managed to make one

->event.

Time you pulled your finger out then, next trip will be Slindon on the 20th, I want to see if I can get a bit more air :-)

Reply to
Geoff

No, actually it's far better at coping with water than previous V8's as it doesn't have a distributor. Each plug has it's own coil in effect so cross firing caused by the distributor/cap is eliminated. Coil on plug units would be better but replacing the crap LR HT leads with good quality ones is almost as good.

Obviously all V8's can be made waterproof it's just easier with the GEMS system.

Don't forget to fit a snorkel though...

cheers

Dave W.

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Reply to
Dave White

On or around Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:16:32 +0000 (UTC), Dave White enlightened us thusly:

for reference, bought a set of Bosch leads from halfrauds for mine, (readily available at the time and reasonable price) but they're s**te. Leads work OK, but the plug caps come apart. I had one pull apart (lead came out of the crimped bit, through careless pulling of the cap/lead), which I put down to operator error, but now despite taking care NOT to pull on the lead, but only on the rubber cap, another has done the same thing. Won't be buying them again.

anyone know if those nice NGK caps are still extant? used to buy them, and a load of copper-core wire, and make me own - never had any problems. Bloody carbon-cored stuff is a pain.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

->> That will be why the engine stops near water..........................:-)

->

->No, actually it's far better at coping with water than previous V8's as

->it doesn't have a distributor. Each plug has it's own coil in effect so

I know it was a joke.

Reply to
Geoff

Take a look at:

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Not sure that they're the NGK ones but you can at least make your own up using them.

Regards

Phil Gardiner

alt.fan.landrover FAQ compiler

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Reply to
Phil Gardiner

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