What I want to know...

About this:

formatting link
is how come the fire brigade (who quite reasonably declined to rescue the bloke on foot or in the inflatabubble boat) didn't drive 12 tons or more of fire engine into the ford (which wouldn't have conked) and then do one of the following:

push the motor clear tow it clear come alongside, open the doors, and hoik the bloke into the fire engine.

Tempted to say "serves him right for driving a jeep", but in reality it really serves him right for poor assessment of the conditions - I don't suppose the rangie would've crossed that without conking either. A properly prepped diesel LR with snorkel should've coped OK, but it's borderline due to the speed of the current.

Reply to
Austin Shackles
Loading thread data ...

I'd be a bit worried about driving 12 tons of *anything* into that without knowing *exactly* what's under the water, TBH. I don't know the wading depth on a fire engine, either, come to that.

On the other hand, someone on a safety line could probably have run a rope out, fastened it to a towing point and/or rescued the driver, but that wouldn't give the RAF an excuse to play with their toys, now, would it? ;-)

Reply to
John Williamson

from the look of the vid at the top, there is a line attached to something....

Reply to
Mark Solesbury

Next time there's a flood you can go and have a try.

I'll sell tickets.

It's not the getting swept away that does the damage, it's after that when you get swept into something large and solid that stops you, and breaks something...

Reply to
William Black

There does indeed. Now, was it put there by the RAF before they started filming, or had someone gone in from the bank?

Reply to
John Williamson

More likely a random tree coming downstream & wiping you out in this case. But what's the difference in risk *in this case* between going in on a safety line anchored upstream & doing the job dangling from a helicopter? And the extra danger for the driver in sitting there waiting for the RAF to arrive as against someone going in & attaching a rope from ground level?

In this case, at least nobody was hurt, apparently.

Reply to
John Williamson

It is possible that what you're actually talking about is what is known as 'The East Sussex Fire and Rescue Landrover Pump' which is a 130 with about two tonnes of firefighting gear loaded onto it (by 'Special Vehicles'?) and is sold to lots of small airfields and fire departments all over the world.

It is well known to be horribly unstable when it has 400 litres of water loaded into the tank at the back...

Reply to
William Black

Not forgetting winching the motor out!

Health & Safetly, which approved procedure to use, etc etc I expect.

Rather like the volenteer Coastguard bloke in Cornwall/Devon a few months back who did something to rescue someone rather than stand about - they hauled him over the coals and tried to discipline him - he quite sensibly quit.

And the bod who drowned when he got stuck in a grating - the firemen just stood around planning while the water rose - a witness kept saying get a bl**dy Land Rover and pull the gate off - injuring him was pereferable to his inevitable drowning. No critism of the actual Firemen, just the way they are made to do things.

Somewhere on the web is the operatational instructions for Sussex Fire Service's Land Rover. Whoever wrote it has clearly no idea what the vehicle can do, and following the instructions to the letter would mean it never being used for it's intended purpose! It's quite likely one of the most pointless documents I've ever read.

The loonies have well and truly take over the asylum sadly, all in the name of avoiding the attentions if Screwem & Laugh (No Win - No Fee) Solicitors and the culture of one person MUST be to blame (which is never true).

Cheers Richard

Reply to
beamendsltd

And you don't want to risk losing a fire appliance in the process. Or flooding the kit it carries, like the cutting equipment or portable pump.

TBH I sometimes wonder why some so called rescues happen at all. Like the floods the other year, and people being air lifted from two storey office buildings. They where in no imediate danger, they might get a little cold and, shock horror, even hungry but they could have stayed there for a day or so until the waters subsided. After the first 12hrs drop some bottled water, blankets and food parcels and they can have a party...

Or there was a group caught by the tide ate the foot of some cliffs. Several lifeboats and helicopters "rescued" them, there was space at the foot of the cliff that the tide wasn't going to reach. Again they wern't in any imediate danger, just wait a few hours, the tide drops and they walk out the way they walked in. No need to mount an expensive "rescue" operation.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

Or the current drags you under and holds you there. Don't under estimate the power of flowing water either, it can have you off your feet before it's above your knees.

Reply to
Dave Liquorice

A "live ammunition" practice session that they don't have to charge to the training budget?

Plus it makes good publicity to do a highly visible rescue now & again with plenty of cameras nearby, so the powers that be & the public at large know they're doing a *great* job?

Now, where did I put the anti-cynicism pills?

None of the above is meant to take anything away from the bravery & commitment of the rescue services, they do a great job, with minimal resources.

Reply to
John Williamson

If you're talking about last week's episode, that coast isn't stable.

It consists of mud and clay cliffs that move with every tide.

They're not safe to walk on, it's not safe to walk near the edge and hanging about at the bottom of the cliffs at high tide, especially after heavy rain, isn't safe.

As a general rule if people get themselves into trouble because of idiocy the helicopter people send a bill.

Reply to
William Black

Have you missed a word out here, such as 'should' inserted inbetween 'people' & 'send'.

I only ask as your statement is incorrect, the helicopter people do not bill anyone, other than NHS trusts for doing medevacs, when it comes to the great british public being idiots.

Dave

Reply to
Dave H

Quite simply the Health & Safety brigade would have put a stop to it before the thought even got into their heads.

Firefighters have to be double roped on any slope greater than 45 degrees, how they climb or desend stairs I'll never know !

A local MRT were called to help the Ambulance service rescue a elderly land who had fallen down a slope ~ 60 degrees and 30 Ft drop. On their arrival ~

45 mins after being called, the Fire Brigade in attendance had everyone doubled roped and the casualty was still insitu. The MRT would have just walked down the slope placed the lady on their stretcher and hauled her back up in about 15 mins. The fire brigade were still deciding what to do, baffled by the Health & Safety aspect !

I digress but at least volunteers aren't covered by H&S regulations :)

Dave

Reply to
Dave H

On or around Sat, 06 Sep 2008 19:47:37 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:

good point. In this case, the bloke was potentially at risk. However, I still reckon that given a sod-off fire engine it'd have been possible to drag the motor out. The water was fast-moving, yes, but in reality not all that deep, and it was on a made-up ford, as far as we can tell, not off-road.

Reply to
Austin Shackles

On or around Sat, 6 Sep 2008 21:20:07 +0100, "Dave H" enlightened us thusly:

this is the thing, though. I bet the firefighters in the example I started with could see a way fo rescuing both motor and bloke but someone somewhere has decided from the depths of a plush office chair that it's not safe.

WTF is with double roping? how many mountaineers do that as a habit, FFS?

Reply to
Austin Shackles

Speaking as a climber, rather than a mountaineer.

When climbing something very technical, where without the double setup you'd swing into something if you lost it, or to protect your second from something nasty, then you'd double rope on 9mm .

On most single pitch stuff, clmbing with bolts for aid, most stuff can be done on a single 11mm rope

Steve

Reply to
steve

The banana-straightening suits in the EC and the HSE had a bloody good go at forcing the requirements of The Work(ing) at Height Regulations 2005 onto cavers and climbers - it was only by dint of a great deal of lobbying that it did not happen.

Reply to
Alan J. Wylie

Yup I know all about that one :)

Reply to
Dave H

"> >

Apparently there was a tractor on scene and that could not pull the vehicle free.

Reply to
fffffff

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.