When is the US going to get "real" Land Rovers?

I thought that bigger was better over there orelse why do they use the HumVee, its as big as a tank, there's a yellow one up here in the north of the UK, it make my disco look like a dinky toy.

Peter.

you've hit the nail on the head it's as big as a tank or more to the point as wide as a tank they were designed to run in tank tracks

Andy

I've seen comments on the web about them using "civilian" versions of the Hummer. Something about them not having "armor".

The way things are going, I'm not sure I'd want Land Rover to be associated with the US military.

Because the average US motorist wouldn't be caught dead driving a diesel of any kind, therefore most automakers don't bother trying to sell them. VW and MB being execptions, but even they don't sell too many.

Also, the US government isn't going to spend US taxpayer's money to keep British autoworkers employed, when they have their own workers to "keep employed".

MB? Milton Bradley? Diesel powered KerPlunk!?

And the argument about which country stays employed becomes a little more academic when it's Ford who own LR.

However, I think that if .mil.us were to look for a smaller offroader then the chances are they'd talk to Chrysler and ask for a revamp on the Jeep rather than buy landies.

P.

The US army does use a few Defenders:

Big diesel pickup trucks are very popular in North America these days. SUVs and sedans are another story.

Isn't it something to do with us building vehicles which aren't up to US safety specs? Initially I thought emissions, but then I thought perhaps not :)

The main problem is that LR and Ford's marketing dept have trouble seeing where they wouls fit in to the US market. They would be smaller than many US pick-ups but would be more expensive to buy. They do not have the comfort and luxury of a typical US pick-up and most of the market demands this. The sheer utility of a Defender and the off-road ability would of course be superior to most pick-ups but perhaps still not create a large enough market to make them viable. LR continually say the no longer sell Defenders in the US because of emmissions and passenger airbag issues - this of course is nonsense as they sell thousands of Discoverys with exactly the same engine and emmissions and fitting a passenger airbag is not beyond the engineering wit of Lode Lane either. On the upside, the US will definitely get the new Defender based on the T5 chassis in a few years, so you'll have to hang on.

The two biggest problems are that US diesel is very porr quality with a high sulfur content and modern high-tech turbo-diesels won't swallow it. The other problem is that petrol is cheap and there in very little diesel-car culture in the states yet. It would however be great to drive a 30mpg TD5 in the states so you can tell all the tree-huggers who think you drive a gas-guzzling SUV to piss off! :)

Politically, it is very difficult for the US to procure non-domestic military kit. Even when the US military decided they must have British Harriers, the top brass had to lie to congress and leap through all sorts of hoops to make them look American before they could purchase them. Same thing with the British Chobham armour used on all abrams tanks. The US Rangers bought some special Defenders called RSOV but I doubt they will ever figure very highly.

Twas Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:35:17 +0100 when "David French" put finger to keyboard producing:

they need rollcages to pass american rollover safety tests...

-- Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) ___________________________________________________________ "To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.

mrniceATmrnice.me.uk 110 CSW 2.5(na)D___________________________________________________________

A question that has been asked by many US servicemen as well. Despite our troops in the Gulf being known as "The Borrowers" by the US Army, when it comes to 4x4s the US tries to borrow Defenders on a regular basis since the Defender seems far better suited to desert warfare than the Hummer. (This according to some of my friends who are currently "out there" in the Gulf states>)

A better solution might be the new Discovery III, which apparently is a much, much better off-roader than the Defender. I'm wondering, since one option is to get a Disco III with a 4.4L Jaguar engine, how long it will be before someone bolts on the supercharger from the Jag XJR/XKR to the Disco?

Twas Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:04:25 +0100 when snipped-for-privacy@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) put finger to keyboard producing:

if I had a disco III it'd take me around 20 minutes ;o)

-- Regards. Mark.(AKA, Mr.Nice.) ___________________________________________________________ "To know the character of a man, give him anonymity" - Mr.Nice.

mrniceATmrnice.me.uk 110 CSW 2.5(na)D___________________________________________________________

Because they do not meet their minimum crash and rollover standards. Apparently they are good enough for us in the UK :-( This will change with the new utility range which is only a year to eighteen months from launch. Yippee!

Huw

don't meet US crash regs , don't have airbags ....

all the engines have been too small for the US market i nthe past, also large cap V8s sell well enough

no doubt there is some technicla hitch as well

and admit defeat, it's rear USS forces don't use domestic products, and when they do they keep it specialised - however a lot of the non domestic kit used by US forces is British in origin and / or design

That's a thread-starting statement if ever I saw one. I have no idea how good Discovery III is off-road, but it depends heavily on all the electrickery, which is fine if it proves to be reliable. As some people in this group will be aware, my experience with the more complex end of the LR range has left me far from convinced that electrons are the best solution to off-roading problems. Although I now have a LR with Traction Control and HDC, so I'm making a bit of a compromise here.

But hey, you have to move with the times.

David

On or around Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:02:30 +0100, "David French" enlightened us thusly:

extra 13" wheelbase ain't gonna help the breakover angle, unless the airsus will lift it quite a bit higher than the 100" ones.

Mind, it appears to have less rear overhang.

|> Because the average US motorist wouldn't be caught dead driving a diesel |> of |> any kind, therefore most automakers don't bother trying to sell them. VW |> and MB being execptions, but even they don't sell too many. |> |> Also, the US government isn't going to spend US taxpayer's money to keep |> British autoworkers employed, when they have their own workers to "keep |> employed". |> |> |>

| |MB? Milton Bradley? Diesel powered KerPlunk!? | |And the argument about which country stays employed becomes a little more |academic when it's Ford who own LR. | |However, I think that if .mil.us were to look for a smaller offroader then |the chances are they'd talk to Chrysler and ask for a revamp on the Jeep |rather than buy landies.

The current Jeeps, made by Mercedes, are not up to the standards. The typical soldier would have them destroyed within weeks. One of the reasons the US got rid of the Chevy pickups (diesel) was that soldiers destroyed the U-joints in the field. The Hummers are tougher.

But in my experience, the Landie seems to be a tough as most Hummers plus it maneuvers down narrow European streets. And it cost less than a Hummer.

|R. David Steele wrote: |> Why can't the US get Defender 90s, 110s and 130s? | |The main problem is that LR and Ford's marketing dept have trouble seeing |where they wouls fit in to the US market. They would be smaller than many US |pick-ups but would be more expensive to buy. They do not have the comfort |and luxury of a typical US pick-up and most of the market demands this. The |sheer utility of a Defender and the off-road ability would of course be |superior to most pick-ups but perhaps still not create a large enough market |to make them viable. LR continually say the no longer sell Defenders in the |US because of emmissions and passenger airbag issues - this of course is |nonsense as they sell thousands of Discoverys with exactly the same engine |and emmissions and fitting a passenger airbag is not beyond the engineering |wit of Lode Lane either. On the upside, the US will definitely get the new |Defender based on the T5 chassis in a few years, so you'll have to hang on.

Word was that we were going to get the TD6, not the TD5. And you forget that we have a midsize and compact size pickup market. All most all the big trucks have smaller brothers.

|>

|> Why can't we have diesel powered Landies? |>

|The two biggest problems are that US diesel is very porr quality with a high |sulfur content and modern high-tech turbo-diesels won't swallow it. The |other problem is that petrol is cheap and there in very little diesel-car |culture in the states yet. It would however be great to drive a 30mpg TD5 in |the states so you can tell all the tree-huggers who think you drive a |gas-guzzling SUV to piss off! :)

We have low sulfur diesel now. I have a VW Jette TDI back in the states. In fact the US environmental laws are far more harsh than anything in Europe.

BTW, Jeep is suppose to sell the Liberty with the Mercedes Common Rail Diesel but that not yet happened.

|> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and |> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops? | |Politically, it is very difficult for the US to procure non-domestic |military kit. Even when the US military decided they must have British |Harriers, the top brass had to lie to congress and leap through all sorts of |hoops to make them look American before they could purchase them. Same thing |with the British Chobham armour used on all abrams tanks. The US Rangers |bought some special Defenders called RSOV but I doubt they will ever figure |very highly.

LD is now part of Ford Motor Company, just as Jeep is now part of Mercedes.

. |> Why can't the US get Defender 90s, 110s and 130s? | |don't meet US crash regs , don't have airbags .... |>

|> Why can't we have diesel powered Landies? |>

|all the engines have been too small for the US market i nthe past, also |large cap V8s sell well enough | |no doubt there is some technicla hitch as well

US gas prices are now going over $2 per gallon. That is making the diesel look better.

|> And why doesn't the US military use the Defender as a basic, and |> cheaper, vehicle for the average troops? |>

|and admit defeat, it's rear USS forces don't use domestic products, and |when they do they keep it specialised - however a lot of the non domestic |kit used by US forces is British in origin and / or design

The LD is now owned by Ford.

Just as Jeep is owned by Mercedes.