OTOH, if you spend the cost of the vehicle in repairs, a subsequent trivial repair will make running costs stupidly high.
Any vehicle of the last 10 years or so is sufficiently complex that repairs are likely to be expensive. They are also infinitely more reliable and better to drive than cars of my youth!
In my way of looking at things, if you buy a £1,000 vehicle, it is disposable. You hope to get a couple of years out of it, and anything after that is a bonus. Once it needs an expensive repair, weigh it in.
I doubt you would even get warranty cover on a 14 year old van. They are most definitely not worth having in any case.
Frayed knot. In general I stay clear of anything commercial. But I understand that basically a connect is just a diesel focus underneath, and they have plenty of faults.
car shops sell the pump for about 8 quid. It appears you must have the tdci version, which does not have an in tank pump. but it is common rail, so slackening fuel unions at the injectors and cranking it over should spurt fuel everywhere, even if it will not run.
So, change the filter, put the vacuum pump on the outlet and pump till we get fuel through then put the hose back to the injector pump back on and see if it will start, or do we crack one of the injector unions and see if it spurts first?
And on the rocker cover itself:
Endura Diesel DI.
Ok.
And if it does, we still might have a faulty pump (insufficient pressure) or faulty EDC / solenoids?
So, new filter (because) and vacuum primed the diesel though the filter. Cracked the lines at the injectors one_at_a_time and saw diesel coming out of each.
Tried again with some brake cleaner and had it running reasonably well on that but not on it's own steam. ;-(
So, I'm going to pass it onto someone who owes daughter a favour to get the pump out and then my take it to a specialist myself to get both the pump and the EDC checked out and a price for replacement.
From the error codes you got it did say that fuel was the last thing to fix and everything else should be fixed first.
I read the reduced fuelling as being "limp home mode". A SI engine would just limit the rpm, this appears to prevent damage by reducing the fuel delivery and hence max power.
So you have faults on timing chain tension, EGR and pedal sensor that need looking at first. The first one if a real fault says it may be very unwise to run the engine (which the ECM is correct in preventing) until you can prove it's just a sensor/wiring fault. The other 2 may just be wiring faults.
Oh, so the *order* of the codes is also important?
Ok, that makes sense but it just ran fine on the way there (20 mins) then just wouldn't restart (if that makes any difference etc).
Would that have it's own sensor would you know Peter or could it determine that from and 'slack' measured in timing between sat the crank and the fuel injector pump (that I believe the chain drives)?
I think the pedal sensor is one that has been there from since she bought the van (not that that diminishes it's impact etc) but the EGR is a new one.
Makes sense.
Understood. So, the people at the fuel injection specialists say they can read the codes directly out of the EDC (that is attached to the pump) and so *if* that does show codes on it's own then can we assume that it's likely that it is at least the EDC is at fault (ignoring the pedal position sensor or wiring issue at least)?
It also seems that the failure mode is that of an EDC dying and considering the van was parked nose into the sun for a few hours on the hottest day of the year ... maybe the extra heat was the final straw?
Also, I think the cam chain replacement is quite a job (if that is a valid code). Might be easier to go with the injector pump and cam belt already off though. ;-)
All interesting stuff though ... even though I'd rather that we weren't having to deal with it etc ...
I understand they went from (wet) chain / dry belt combo to wet belt / dry belt back to wet chain / dry belt again. ;-)
If I understand it correctly, common rail would have a common high pressure feed and electronic injectors whereas traditional would be that the (Bosch VP30?) pump 'distributes' it's outputs to the 4 injectors mechanically (rotary valve) with the timing and stuff controlled via the EDC and two solenoids in the bottom of the pump?
And the little (common rail ) hoses that come off the side of the mechanical injectors and goes back to the top of the filter T piece is some sort of spillage collection?
they are waste pipes leading to the drain to be recycled.
The common rail is the incoming mains boosted by a pump, the injectors are electric taps turned on and off by an elf. Your elf is on strike or asleep waiting for a signal to go.
What concerns me slightly is Peters suggestion that the error codes come up in the order of importance and that if the cam chain is loose (not out of the question after 175k miles) that it could be the cause of the (non starting) fault?
Let's say it is and let's say it (the over loose cam chain) was initially detached on her way out that day, that it could have gone into low power mode during the last of the journey (potentially unnoticed) and then acted like a 'once stopped don't restart till attended to' mode?
I understand that lads that have the van now are going to code read it themselves and presuming they have seen these things before, should know what to do next and if they do take the injector pump off anyway, the injection specialists will read the fault codes in that in any case (whether or not it is the only issue)?
I didn't read Peter's post that way; I think he was just suggesting that if there was a cam-chain fault, it would be unwise to start it.
IME you can hear the chain before it gets to that point, and you usually get a non-start or limp-home condition that 'cures' itself long before the chain will break.
Was any warning light on during that journey? Was performance very limited?
Whilst bit Chris, the order of importance bit of the 'This is important so I've inhibited the starting' bit?
I think Chris was referring to this fault code:
===PCM DTC P1664=== Code: P1664 - FIP malfunction Module: Powertrain Control Module Diagnostic Trouble Code details FIP malfunction FIP timing chain tension PCM This DTC may be caused by : PCM FIP ===END PCM DTC P1664===
That's good news then. ;-)
I wasn't there but neither was noticed that she was aware of (she says).
That said, it was a very urban trip, all 30's and less are rarely free of a fair bit of traffic so I'm not sure how 'obvious' (to someone not necessarily tuned to such things [1] and who typically drives 'gently' (it's an old van so she tries to look after it)).
Unless it would be *very* noticeable etc?
Cheers, T i m
[1] A mate noticed his Transit was down on power, came up with numerous ideas as to what it could be (none even close) and asked if I could take a ride in it to see what I thought. I'm no expert but after asking him plenty of question and getting him to demonstrate exactly 'how / when' he noticed it most, I concluded (mostly from the new sound he pointed out) that it was something to do with the turbo.
He took it to the garage. it was taken out for a test drive and NFF. He got the top bloke to take it out and *he* thought it was something to do with the turbo, did a temporary repair to a hose and it was back to itself again. ;-)
I think you can get two situations with these sorts of things ... someone new driving (or even passengering) in a vehicle might hear / feel stuff that the regular driver has assumed was 'normal' but isn't ... and also only the regular driver can spot those smaller things that become 'different'. ;-)
Like every time I passenger in her van and we go over something with the nsf wheel I hear / feel a 'clonk' that she has long since learned to ignore (I have mentioned it here, possibly a worn strut).
No sure, which is why I suggested there might be a 'once turned off, stay off' type failsafe (a bit like most immobiliser's if I understand it correctly). [1]
I thought we were talking about cam chain tension MrC?
Sure, but no so for a cam chain. ;-)
Cheers, T i m
[1] When the Meriva ECU was going intermittent it would always start from cold, would restart from hot but often wouldn't restart from warm (because it was being immobilised etc). Not *once* did it ever cut out once started, even when only warm. That was only a sample of one of course but I though it was also 'illegal' to have any security type system that caused a vehicle to just cut out once running because of the obvious safety implications (except bait cars possibly). ;-)
I'm not sure about your youth but ignoring a trunion failing on my MM Van (that I roped up to get home) and a half shaft snapping on same (I pushed it home), it never let me down in spite of being used pretty hard all over the place (inc regularly traveling from Nth London to Crewe to see my girlfriend of the time). Mk2 Escort, no trouble, M5 Cortina Estate no trouble, 2L Sierra Estate, just a cambelt and one brake caliper hot seizing) and the latter was over 23 years! The Rover 218SD came with some issues (for £100) but cost little to fix and did another 50k miles and 7 years (and got me home twice with little coolant in the system). Similar with the 93 Astra that always got us home.
The newest car we have had is the 2004 Meriva and in spite of it have the lowest mileage of any car we have ever owned, has cost us the most so far in time and trouble (always got us home so far though, all be it we had to wait several hours for it to start). ;-(
Quite, except this cost her about 2K 18 months ago and she has spent a bit on it (5 new tyres, roof rack, locks, keys etc) and doesn't know anyone we trust enough who is selling something similar to know if it's simply going be buying someone else's problems?
Understood.
Update: The lads got the pump out and we took it to an Injection Specialists and they stuck it on their jig and read a Code 59 (Timing error or summat) which they said confirmed a faulty EDC (at least). A new pump was going to be c £900 so I got them to take the EDC off and ran it round to the Co who re-manufactured the Meriva ECU a couple of years ago.
It will take them a couple of days to process and then we can either:
Fit the EDC back on ourselves and then:
1) Give it back to the lads to fit untested and cross our fingers.
or
2) Give it back to the Injection specialists and get them to give it a quick functional test (about £150) and assuming it is ok, then give it to the lads to refit.
I couldn't really justify daughter spending that much money on a *new* pump for van with those miles?
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