480 - to buy or not to buy??

Spec seems quite basic compared to that.

However, it had this gremlin rear it's ugly head last week:

My Golf was in having work done on it, and the Montego is currently awaiting a decent set of injectors, so I *had* to take the Volvo to work.

I've had the car a few weeks, and bought it with full main dealer history off of a mate, with the problem being, the alternator was supposedly knackered.

Anyway, I took a spare battery along with me when I went to pick it up, and it started fine. I started using it of an evening when I wasn't at work, and it behaved itself.

I took it down to my mechanics, and they tested it out, and proved the alternator was working fine - the only thing I'd noticed up to this point, was the battery light didn't always come on with the ignition.

Anyway... so a few weeks of wedded bliss, including a trip to Colchester and back on one pissing hard Saturday, with the lights, wipers, heated rear screen and fan on 99% of the time - nigh on 200 miles there and back, not a problem, I thought I was home and dry.

Take it to work as I said, last week, and paused only to lob in my decent head unit, (both Golf and Volvo have ISO plugs), as it was going to have to be used for a few days, and seeing as I'm in the car all day generally, I like my sounds.

Everything seemed ok, when all of a sudden as I was driving along, the radio switched itself off.

I checked all the fuses, nothing blown. I pulled the head unit out - nothing obvious wrong with the wiring. Nothing else at this point seemed amiss with the car.

Get to the next drop, come back out, go to start it, and it's having none of it; not enough power to turn it over.

I ended up bumping it. Once it was running. engine wise, it was spot on, but all lights etc., had virtually no power. The SRS light was dimly illumininated on the dash. The fan / horn etc., all dead.

Drive it 18 miles like this, back home.

At one point, the lights all came back up straight away, then went dead again 500 yards down the road.

Got home, changed the battery, left it sitting there all week, partly because I've had no time to look at it, and partly because I couldn't find the keys til tonight.

I go outside, turn it over... it reluctantly started.

Drove it around a few miles, lights on, heater on, rear heated screen on.

Got home, started it again, and it started straight away, no messing, indicating the battery had taken a charge, so... is it the CEM I should be looking at, bearing in mind all the electrics were apparently almost dead, except the actual ignition and injection systems; the engine ran absolutely spot on whilst everything else was nigh on dead?

I only bought the car because it was so cheap, but I've really grown to like it since - it's so quiet and comfy on a run, that I'd quite like to keep it as my non-work car, but only if it doesn't mean I'm setting myself up for a life of electrical niggles.

-- JackH

To a lesser degree, yes - the 440s seem to lack the amount of electrical crap they loaded the 480 with. For example, the 480s rear wiper is synchronised to the front ones. If the car is healthy, the rear wiper goes every third sweep, and returns to 'home' at the same time as the fronts. Don't know if a 440 is quite as mad.

A 1994 model has CEM-III, anyway. Quite stable. In the 480, there were a couple of ways to check, the most reliable was, IIRC, the CEM-III models have total closure - hold the key in 'lock' position and the windows and sunroof close - the CEM-II models have a 'kickdown' for the wipers - if the wipers are on intermittent and you floor it (as if you were passing a truck) they momentarily go to 'fast' wipe. CEM-III models also have 'safe home' lights; flash the lights when the ignition is off and the auxilliary driving lights (besides the running lights) will stay on for

Why can I remember this stuff >_<

Oh, and when checking out a 480, always open the bonnet to the 90 degree angle (the second stop on the bonnet stay). It freaks out the owners and lets you check the bulkhead/fusebox without bashing your head.

Richard

Rear wash-wipe isn't part of the MOT IIRC.

Ok... but that doesn't make complete sense to me, given the battery was flattened by whatever was wrong, yet the engine circuits still apparently got a healthy supply whilst everything else was dead to the world... or are they driven direct off the alternator?

That and the problem must have been in existence before I bought it, yet I did over 600 trouble free miles in it before it gave me any aggro... and that only seemed to happen after I'd put the radio in, yet it still did it when that was removed.

The other thing that didn't make complete sense to me, was the radio worked regardless of whether the ignition was on or not - I know Vauxhalls can be like this with aftermarket radios due to their wiring - are these similar, as in both feeds to the headunit are permanently live?

-- JackH

Yup, prbably the best they ever made as far as reliability goes.

They're pretty good too, I drove a couple of those myself, although one had suffered an ECU failure.

Yes, you can just about forget the multi-valve engines really.

Yup.

Correct.

The MoT Tester's Manual only refers to wipers and washers in relation to the windscreen.

My 480 passed it's MOT without the rear wash-wipe working, last time.

Ben.

CEM II has this function too. You're right about the window closure system though - this was only a function of CEM III. The other tell-tale sign that's it's CEM III, is that if you turn the ignition on without fastening the drivers seatbelt, the CEM will beep about 5 times. CEM II (and I presume CEM I) didn't do this - they just flash the light on the dashboard.

All 480's manufactured after January 1991 will have CEM III. Don't confuse 'manufactured' with 'registered' though!

Ben.

"JackH" wrote

That sounds very typical of a bad earth connection somewhere. Im not sure where they are on a 440, but there should be several points on the car where everything nearby is earthed at the same point. I'd suggest following the brown wires, and cleaning up all the connections where they contact the bodywork, and make sure they're connecting to a good bit of metal.

Ben.

Yes, one of the reasons I despise 480s is a geezer I used to work with had a black 480 Turbo with 17" Azev A's on. Bloody nice wheels, but by Christ that was possibly the most unreliable car I've ever known.

Both feeds aren't permanently live on my 480. The radio works as it should, with the ignition. Maybe this could be where your problem is? The radio feed is probably also used to power other things too. I wonder if something else (that shouldn't be) is staying 'on', even when the ignition is turned off?

I know with the older 480's that didn't have ISO connectors, when people swapped the factory radio for an aftermarket one, the dashboard would start behaving oddly, unless they joined some wires that appeared to be unused for the new radio (but obviously did something with the factory one) back together. As you've got an ISO connector though, I'm assuming yours is a newer 440 - or have they always had ISO connectors all along?

Also, from a discussion we had on the 480 Club forum, on which bits were worth salvaging from 440's at scrapyards, that could be used on a 480, I think we came to the conclusion that 440's don't have a CEM. This is probably why they tend to be more reliable than 480's! - but it's one less thing for you to have to try and fault-find with.

I'm not sure exaclty how the alternator circuitry works, but from past experience, I know you can have a completely flat battery, jump start the car, and the alternator will power everything, regardless of the state of the battery (in my case un-rechargeable, and beyond all hope!). This was on a mini though, so maybe it's possible that other cars could have the alternator constantly powering the engine/ignition circuits/charging the battery, and everything else is driven direct from the battery, whilst it's being charged. I'd have thought it's unlikely though. Never-the-less... it'd probably be a good idea to check what the battery terminal connections are like, and make sure they're making good contact. I know there have been several problems with 480's that were diagnosed as a poor earth connection from the battery to the chassis.

Ben.

This is another common problem with 480's. There is a halogen bulb which is used to display the LED on the infocenter. If you look really close, you can see that the infocenter is (probably!) working, it's just not illuminated. These cost about £10 from Volvo to replace (although I'm sure if you know what the bulb is, you could buy it a lot cheaper elsewhere), and you could do it at the same time you've got the binnacle out, looking for dry joints to fix the rev-counter problem - see my other post about that!

Ben.

I want Azev As for my Supra - they have been the style of alloy I've wanted since I owned my Manta.

I believe they do them in chrome now. But do I spend as much on a set of alloys as my car is (optimistically) worth?!

Richard

Ok, it's played up again this evening...

I drove it about 18 miles, no problem - mixture of town and motorway.

As I came back into town and slowed, I noticed the lights dim, so I revved it, and they came back up. It did it again as soon as the revs dropped.

A couple of times more of revving, and it made no difference - from that point on, they stayed at the same level of dimness, regardless of engine revs or if I tried things like sticking the heater on full blast etc.

So... alternator problem, or what?

When I got home, it wouldn't start again.

-- JackH

My 480 had a similar problem - shorted cell in the battery, but the cause was some regulatory thing in the alternator. Thanks to mine having A/C and getting the main dealer to do it, fixing it cost me a nice £360 including a new Volvo battery.

Richard

Ah... I have air-con too.

Sounds like a plan - Euro Car Parts list alternators at around £75.

I'll be damned if it's going anywhere near the main dealers, after they quoted me *£30* + vat, for just one hubcap, and nearly a tenner for a rocker cover gasket, thieving oiks.

-- JackH

Maybe it'll be less hassle than mine - more room under the 440 bonnet. the A/C shouldn't affect the operation of the alternator etc., just how much of a pain it is to change ;)

Richard

wot now? 440 has passed mot muster with info notes about brake pipes corroding, sleeves on base of rear shocks corroded (but they said that last year!), rubber bumper thingies on base of rear shocks falling apart and a patched up exhaust. Logic tells me to stick with the old 440 and keep her going... might phone the ins company to find out what the 480 would cost as an extra car though ;-)