97K on a 2L Pinto. New oil pump?

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, T i m decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Depends on the kind of use. If you're going to be thrashing the living shit out of it get a high capacity oil pump. Pressure wise they're not too bad.

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the fast reply!

Well, I've had the Sierra from new (service engineer) and for the last

14 years the missus has also been using it as a runabout (5 doors etc). It used to tow my 14' sailing dinghy up to the 'Broads' or the Lake District or be full of camping gear for our family camping trips.

The Pinto's new role in the Ranger it will be just for the odd short trip, maybe some towing (nothing big big) and *maybe* a mild green lane or two (it's got M&S tyres but only 2WD). Certainly no track days (it's a shed)!

It's currently got the 4.4:1 diff but I might go for the 4.125:1 to drop the revs a bit later on after I see what the 5 speed box feels like in there.

If I was to test the oil pressure and found it to be 'ok' (for a 97k engine) is it something that will just fail, or will it just gently fade away?

All the best ..

T i m

The message from T i m contains these words:

Definitely the spray bar, possibly the cam. I can't see any particular reason to change the pump.

If you change the cam you'll need to change the followers. A new cam, followers and a good decoke and valve grind can seriously revive a Pinto.

In news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, T i m decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Ahh, I didn't spot the "Ranger" bit. Aye, change the spraybar.

If an oil pump is going to give in, it'll just stop working IME. Pinto pumps tend to be ok as long as the oil is changed regularly (as it must have been if the Sierra isn't cammy). Change the spray bar though.. I didn't do that to the Capri and now it (well, when it works) sounds like an FX4.

Ok, willdo ..

Ah, so if I leave it take notice of the oil pressure light .. ;-)

Pinto pumps

I've done it *fairly* regularly .. maybe not as often as I should but it would probably be the 'time' rather than 'miles' limits that were broken. (which may not be as bad)?

Change the spray bar though.. I didn't do that

"Taxi!" ..

All the best and thanks again ..

T i m

p.s. Where I went to get the sump, they were sorta suggesting that at

97k I ought be looking at an engine rebuild? Rebore / hone, rings, shells etc etc. Then he offered me a Ford recon for 400 quid but part of this job is actually putting *My* Sierra engine in the kit car, sort of 'in memory' of the very faithful / loyal friend I had in the old 2L GL Estate ... ;-(

WHile the engine's out, why not get a feeler guage on the oil pump and see how bad it is? You won't get another chance for a while (hopefully!)

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember T i m saying something like:

Foolish economy to not replace a nearly 100k oil pump when you have the golden opportunity to do so.

the spray bar yes the oil pump is also a yes seeing as it's only 20 quid or so and for another 30 quid you get a full head set and you canpull the head off, do the valves and stuff and whack it back together again they are unbreakable as long as you give them oil, and even then my mates got one that's had a blown head gasket for the past 4 months and that still runs :)

Ok ..

Hmm, although it smokes slightly for a few a seconds on startup (stem seals?) and again a bit, if you give it some stick in the dark (when you can see it in the headlights of the car behind you). It doesn't smoke under normal acceleration or seem to burn much oil between changes (I think it looses what is lost from the back of the rocker cover).

I would love to rebuild the engine but can't afford to at the moment and while it's still running ok ..... ?

It's quite a power shock when I get into the Sierra after the 218SD Rover or 1300 Kent powered Kit car (or the 1.4i Astra come to think of it!) ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Ah, so I can measure it to see how bad it is but can I 'adjust it' ( shims etc .. or is it a throw away job at that point?)

All the best ..

T i m

Fair enough .. but I didn't really have a feeling what sort of miles would be considered 'safe' for such a basic (and old) design of engine. I suppose I was thinking that the engine was designed to run on much lower spec oils that one would typically tip in there these days (Trade semi synthetic at 5 quid a gallon etc)?

Also the 218SD Rover has done 170K miles and AFAIK has the original oil pump (and that's a nasty transverse thing and a diesel to boot?).

I don;t mind spending the 25 quid (inc Vat) on the pump, 30 quid on gaskets, X on a spray bar ..... and probably the clutch ... mind you .. 100 quid for maybe another 25k miles can't be expensive motoring can it ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

Hmm, a bit like the gearbox output bearing in the kitcar .. it's been 'grumbling' for the last 5 years!

Ok .. so it looks like I need (so far)

Spray bar Oil pump Top end set (does that come with stem seals?) Bottom end set ( I'm changing the sump .. would the oil pump come with scavenger pipe gasket or would it come with a bottom end set?)

I have already got the 2L Cortina double core rad (15 quid, looks like a recent recon) ;-)

RS2000 Throttle cable (MKII Escort pedal box to OHC lump)

I still need to get:

Higher strut brace (to clear the taller lump / air filter) (Rickman) New engine mounts (supplied by Rickman) New 35mm x 75mm dia rubber mounts (Car spares)

2L Cortina main hoses and other misc hoses (Car spares?)

... and I've got to get the propshaft remade with a nose piece to suit the Sierra 5sp box (loosing the rubber doughnut .. someone said Hillman Hunter u/j?)

And fabricate the exhaust (the std exhaust is *supposed* to cross over under the tail section of the gearbox .. except on my estate, it mostly goes down the offside of course .. ;-( )

Oh and somehow re-lube (or re-make) the bearings for the very noisy heater fan from the 1978 Escort heater assembly .. ;-)

Should keep me busy for a while ;-)

All the best .. and thanks for all the replies folks ..

T i m

The message from T i m contains these words:

Yes. And a zillion little bits you'll never identify. It should also have camshaft seals - which are worth changing.

Common problem is cam cover being overtightened and leaking. Personally I stick the gasket onto the cover with Hermetite Red and use more of the same on the other side to seal to the top.

Before you put the cam cover back on though - run the engine at idle[1] to make sure oil's piddling out of the spray bar.

[1] However - if you've changed the cam DO NOT run it at idle 'cos it shags the camshaft. Follow the instructions that come with it.

Funny how you get that so much .. I fitted something the other day and ended up with a nice selection of 'extra' 'O' rings for the tool box ;-)

It should also

Ok, good idea .. do I have to remove the camshaft to do this or can they be changed in situ (picked out) please?

I was talking about that with my garage owning mate and with reference to the multi-part cork sump gasket on the Pinto. He pulled out a box of little brass 'clips' that you poke through the gasket and sump / whatever bolt holes to hold it all in line whilst it's 'sticking'.

Is that to do with the bearings being 'dry' ?

I think I'll leave the top-end (apart from spray bar) for another day .. I think I want to make sure this Pinto 'works' in the Ranger before I spend too much time or money on it.

All the best ..

T i m

For what they cost for a pinto just buy another if it appears worn. Mind you if you are going to have to take it off to measure it for what they cost you may just as well buy another anyway. If the cam isn't knackered though I doubt the pump will be.

The message from T i m contains these words:

Yeah, you can just hoik 'em out with a screwdriver. The fast idle for new camshafts is explained carefully in someone's website - but I can't remember whose.

Ok cheers .. my mate (who runs his own garage and where I hope to be doing this work) has probably got the fancy 'Snap On' oil seal hoiker (pn 343235-5?) if the screwdriver doesn't work ;-)

The fast idle for

So this is just for 'new' cam shafts Guy (eg not refitting old ones if I have to take it out?).

All the best ..

T i m

The message from T i m contains these words:

Just new ones. It has to do with how the metal surface is work hardened during the first few minutes of use - or something.

However, if you're taking the shaft out, make sure you refit it with the followers in the same positions as the shaft and follower will have worn to fit each other.

Several of the Pintos I've taken apart had really noticeable steps in the cam lobes where they'd worn - so much so in a couple of cases that the valves were hardly opening. The difference from fitting new cam and followers was startling.

Ok ..

Like pushing pushrods through a bit of card then eh? ;-)

Ok, I'll check for that when I'm in there .. there seems to be no problem with 'go' though .. ;-)

What sort of money was a cam and followers (trade) by the way please .....?

All the best ..

T i m