Airbags - only last 10 years ?

But surely it's entirely possible to just remove the fuse and disable the whole airbag system, isn't it?

Ok, so it won't be there to work when you might want it to, but given the fact that it may not work anymore anyway, what it does do is remove the possibility of it working when you *don't* want it to.

: If you think that airbags older than say 10 are unduly risky either because : of premature detonation or because of their possible non deployment when : needed, then weigh the risks up and act accordingly.

Yeah, that's what I said.

Only time will tell whether old airbags are more likely to fail safe or not. If safe, I don't really care, but if not - well, not only do I not want to be behind the wheel when one goes off, I don't want to be the poor sod driving the other way along the road when it happens.

Fingers crossed, eh?

Ian

: > My prediction is therefore that /as/ airbag equipped cars get older : > and therefore /as/ the number of old cars with airbags increases, : > /then/ (not now) there are likely to be issues with reliability of : > airbag systems. : >

: > Would you be quite happy to drive a car with a twenty five year old : > airbag and associated control system a foot from your face? : : But surely it's entirely possible to just remove the fuse and disable the : whole airbag system, isn't it? : : Ok, so it won't be there to work when you might want it to, but given the : fact that it may not work anymore anyway, what it does do is remove the : possibility of it working when you *don't* want it to.

That would be my inclination on any older car.

Ian

: Umm, absolutely. I rather think you're missing the point of TVR...

Same as the point of Chelsea Football Club, innit?

Ian

Like he said...

I don't think you're getting this whole 'choice' concept thing. I could buy a car with the option to disable TC, ABS, ESP etc etc...but that's all gumf I'm paying extra for...that I'd be switching off.

Wait...here's a TVR, minus the gumf.

It's nothing to do with what we "deserve", it's what people _want_. If someone would rather buy a car without ABS they can buy a TVR. You can buy a Nissan Micra with 30ft of foam padding and an electronic limiter set at 4mph if you want, and someone decides to make it.

Trying to say "america doesn't allow it, why do we" doesn't really work, either. If you want to live in America, go. There's plenty other things our laws disagree on -- like guns.

Nobody actually wants a Land Rover that is less safe than it should be. It is the default choice if one has to buy British and needs the off road performance and especially the towing capacity. No one is likely not to buy a modern one because it is too safe.

Again, no one would have grounds to avoid a TVR if it had ABS and I doubt anyone would. These are just excuses for inadequate and antiquated products and such arguements have been used and discredited throughout motoring history by both manufacturers and gullible consumers alike. I am old enough to remember the same bullshit used against fitting or using seatbelts and even against collapsible steering columns for goodness' sake, let alone crash helmets for bikes.

Well actually you can't.

Irrelevant and mistaken.

There's plenty

Indeed.

Huw

Ah! What a film that was. The tension rose to unbearable as the bombers crossed the northern coast of Russia....

Well you don't have choice if you can't get it. Having it and having the possibility of switching it off gives a choice. Simple. Given a choice motor manufacturers would still be building cars that killed their inhabitants in vast numbers. They had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to incorporate even the most basic features like a padded steering boss and dash up to the mid 1970's. American legislation may have been heavy handed in some areas but it and Scandinavian manufacturers have done every single driver everywhere a great favour and safety does sell in a limited way these days. Those side and curtain airbags, improved safety cells, active safety devices such as abs, published crash tests, crumple zones and pedestrian safety ratings should all be applauded as a *good thing*, not resisted as if they were about to bring an end to spirited and individual motoring. That will come soon enough after 2010 when the Galileo system is fully on-line. That system will enable constant mileage charging and automatic fines for exceeding speed limits an a real time basis. That is when the fun stops.

Huw

The point being.....

TVR don't really have any competitors - they produce basic, old world, proper sportscars. I hate 'driver aids' - the only one that I'd class as useful would be PAS - ABS, however, is a complete PITA. The next time we see snow, the fuse is coming out. The kind of person TVR target, and a majority of their buyers, are those who want a basic, stripped out sportscar that is directly connected to the road by proper bits of metal and engineering, not something that gives a vague impression of being connected to the road, but with all the feedback governed by what a computer wants you to feel.

Given a choice, my daily driver would be a 1970s Fiat 124 Spider. That's a proper car for an enthusiastic driver. There's no safety features, no driver aids, just a rorty 4-pot lump connected to the road without any intervention by computers. I don't need 60 airbags because I'm not going to crash, and I don't need driver aids as my feet and hands give me all the feedback I need to moderate traction and steering.

Well I drive things with plenty of other 25 year old bits in them, why should airbags be different?

: > Would you be quite happy to drive a car with a twenty five year old : > airbag and associated control system a foot from your face?

: Well I drive things with plenty of other 25 year old bits in them, why : should airbags be different?

Most of the safety critical bits on my old cars can be, and are, checked regularly and replaced. And airbag will just sit there, brooding evilly, until one day ...

Ian

Check your servicing schedules, my Rover, Volvo and Mercedes all had airbags listed as part of the yr 10 service.

: Ian Johnston wrote: : : > Most of the safety critical bits on my old cars can be, and are, : > checked regularly and replaced. And airbag will just sit there, : > brooding evilly, until one day ... : : Check your servicing schedules, my Rover, Volvo and Mercedes all had airbags : listed as part of the yr 10 service.

Which is fine if they're done. Many cars, however, are not being taken in for (expensive) dealer services when they are ten years old ...

Ian

You have evidence that it's likely to go off of its own accord? However, on an old vehicle there's no reason why you can't just remove it if you wish.

Any decent independant will also have the servicing schedules - mine has them all on some computer program.

: Ian Johnston wrote: : : > Which is fine if they're done. Many cars, however, are not being taken : > in for (expensive) dealer services when they are ten years old ... : : Any decent independant will also have the servicing schedules - mine has : them all on some computer program.

Indeed ... but many ten, or fifteen or twenty year old cars don't get regular servicing of any sort. Airbag replacement is going to be uneconomic for many older cars, so it just won't get done.

Ian

: In article , : Ian Johnston wrote: : > : Well I drive things with plenty of other 25 year old bits in them, why : > : should airbags be different? : : > Most of the safety critical bits on my old cars can be, and are, : > checked regularly and replaced. And airbag will just sit there, : > brooding evilly, until one day ... : : You have evidence that it's likely to go off of its own accord?

Nope. Only time and statistics will tell.

: However, : on an old vehicle there's no reason why you can't just remove it if you : wish.

Lots of people claim that insurance companies won't like that, but I have a feling that it will become pretty routine. In fact, if any unwanted activation problems start showing up, insurance companies might insist on it.

Ian

Given the fairly minimal number of 15year old vehicles on the road nowadays & the lack of reports of airbags going off at random it seems very unlikely they'll care.