We had a different probelm.Getting the suspension up on a CX to change the starter motor - err yes. Need to start the engine to so that of course - and we are swapping the starter because it's knackered.
Eventually dug a hole to put a bottle jack in to get sufficient height to slide the trolley jack in.
*sigh* French cars eh?Chris Street ( snipped-for-privacy@chris-street.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
Indeed.
Particularly if it's a Xantia with the usual crappy plastic clip on the rear height corrector having let go of the anti-roll bar. "Oh, I'll just clip that back on - lucky the back's up high so I can reach under easily..."
Suprisingly (not), the back comes down when you do so.
At least one muppet has been splatted doing that. Not a great loss to the gene pool, though.
Could be worse. Could have been an SM.
To access the battery, first remove front wheel...
Paging Ian!
: Idea's why these cracks developed? They are right on the load points where : the pin bears down on the outer pipe.
You'll have horrible stress concentrations there, just asking for a Type II (shear) fatigue crack growth. Probably some fretting fatigue, too, from small movements of the car as it's worked on.
Ian
: Incidentally-never, but never crawl under a Citroen (or any other with self : levelling suspension) without first blocking up the body. Years ago I read about a neighbour-from-hell in Reading who tried to sabotage his victim's car by cutting the brake lines one night. Only he didn't - he cut a hydragas line instead. They found his dead body the next morning, with a sump where his face should have been.
Ian
: Could be worse. Could have been an SM. : : To access the battery, first remove front wheel... : : Paging Ian!
Where shall I start....
How to replace a DS starter motor? First, remove the front wing. And the steering column. And the exhaust. And the exhaust manifold.
How to replace the main accumulator? First, remove the front wing. And the alternator. And the distributor. And the fuel pump. And the LPG vaporiser.
Actually, in both the above cases it's quicker, easier and cheaper just to buy another DS.
Ian
PS A friend had a Peugeot 504 estate in which you had to remove the radiator to fit a fan belt. Makes taking the distributor out to fit numbers 1 or 2 plugs on a Reliant seem trivial!
Ian Johnston ( snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
I don't think you can blame Citroen for that.
Can't agree with that. Assuming the inner tube is a reasonable fit in the outer tube, there are neglible bending stresses. Just two shear points on the pin. Any bending stress can only come from the clearance between the two tubes. Mike.
As I said in an earlier post. The most likely cause is a flaw in the material. Most bright steel rod is cold drawn or rolled, but the end result is very dependant upon the quality of the steel that's fed into the die or rollers. Very occasionally I've had to reject steel from a steel stockist, as machining has shown it to have a flaw Effectively a crack running along it's entire length. It's usually caused by a fold occuring during the pre rolling or drawing stage of it's manufacture. The same principle is used to get the lettering through a stick of rock. :-) Mike.
: Ian Johnston ( snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com) gurgled happily, : sounding much like they were saying : : : > How to replace the main accumulator? First, remove the front wing. And : > the alternator. And the distributor. And the fuel pump. : : > And the LPG vaporiser. : : I don't think you can blame Citroen for that.
You wouln't believe how many things I can blame Citroen for!
Actually, the vaporiser is the easiest bit - I an whip that off in a minute or so. The rest is real automotive gynaecology.
Ian
: > : They should but shouldn't need to as Dave eluded to earlier in this : > : thread, they shouldn't be able to bend very much as they should be in : > : shear? : >
: > The situation in an axle stand pin is the same as in a "four point : > bend test" - between the inner walls you have, effectively zero shear : > and constant bending moment. : : Can't agree with that. : Assuming the inner tube is a reasonable fit in the outer tube, there are : neglible bending stresses. Just two shear points on the pin.
The bending stresses aren't very big, but they'll definitely be there. Both my sets of axles stands clerances of around 4 - 5mm on the diameter, which is why I used that figure in my example.
: Any bending stress can only come from the clearance between the two tubes.
Yup. And even a couple of millimeters is enough to make bending stresses a problem. Though probably not, I'll grant you, as much of a problem as crack growth in shear.
Ian
Good on him! My old dad (and I'm old) bought a 1930 Citroen when it was twenty years old. Paid £20 and took it back just 'cos it jumped out of second gear. Another 'incidentally'. Andre Citroen invented the hypoid gear which is why it has the double inverted V as the logo. DaveK.
davek ( snipped-for-privacy@brentmere53.fsnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
Not quite - he didn't "invent" it - he found a wooden double-helix (not hypoid) gear near a relative's place in Poland, and turned it into a commercial proposition.
Used in the steering gear on the Titanic, among other places...
Very, very good in applications where there's a very large difference in the sizes of the two gears.
My father once had a Wolsely 2300. I recall that swapping the alternator involved dropping the rack, RH Mcpherson and piles of other stuff.
Swapping the alternator brushes however had it's own little tip that involved gas axing a hatch through the wheel arch and welding it up again afterwards.
We were gonna sell it till we crashed it.
Goddam! The things you learn here. Did you have that waiting to spring on me? Fantastic. DaveK.
I assume you mean a 2200 - the transverse 6 in an Austin 1800 (land crab) body?
Didn't have strut suspension - it was Hydagas, like a Mini, so effectively wishbone.
It was certainly a transverse 6 so that sounds like it. I always thought it was a 2.3 litre though.
Possibly. I recall having to drop something that I remember as a Mcpherson but I could be wrong. There was an awful lot of gubbins around the bottom of the suspension as well.
The fact I broke my skull in the crash teh day after we reassembled it makes that period of my life a little hazy. I do recall me and my father being deeply grateful it was a write off and the third parties insurer coughed for the lot as it drank petrol.
A Hypoid gear is a bevel gear. Like wot rear drive axles have, and the pinion and crown wheel are on different centres. Mike.
Agreed Mike ;-)
I was trying to say that there would be 'some' bending in service but not as much bending as shear (IMO and subject to tube fit etc) not that you were wrong. Also I should imagine you would want a steel stiff enough in there to stay 'straight', but soft enough to bend rather than snap?
Fatigue is another story though as has been mentioned .. ;-)
It does make you think though .. I had the front end of my Ford V6 fitted Bedford CF up on my axle stands whilst sorting some suspension or steering bushes (can't remember.. MOT fail) .. I can remember having both wheels under it, the trolley jack and blocks though ;-)
All the best ..
T i m
Also sprach Adrian :-
HA! the bloody rays are out in force today.
Also sprach "davek" :-
He was famous for manufacturing 'em (and they weren't hypoid, just back to back helical), but they'd been around for years before him. There are examples of them being used in watermills far earlier - in fact, IIRC it was from a watermill that he got the idea of making 'em.
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