If so, why doesn't everybody use tyres with the shortest possible stopping distance? Including you.
My performance requirement is an adequate stopping distance. Note the difference.
Why won't you pay for the best tyres possible, regardless of cost?
Why is your personal cost/performance trade-off any more valid than say mine?
clive
The message from "Coyoteboy" contains these words:
But that simply isn't true in real life. People buy tyres that they can afford and fit them to cars they can afford. I hadn't used all the grip available on my tyres more than once in the last five years. And then it wasn't enough so I had to give up braking and go round the obstacle.
By your reasoning we'd all live in bungalows because they don't have those dangerous stairs.
On my current car I've never used the ABS in anger - though I've tried it a couple of times so I'd know what it did and how it did it.
What do you drive? I can remember my mates Gold Wing only doing 3000 miles to a back tyre (was bald). I got over 2 years use from my last set of 4 tyres with proper rotation and I do over 12K miles a year. I don't drive like a granny, I get diff lock on the rear quite often and have just burnt up my 3rd set of front brakes (nice blue/black ring on disc with crazed surface). 2-3K miles is naff all wear.
-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!
I replace tyres an axle at a time whether it's a £70 pair for my Mum's Micra or a £450 pair for my ALPINA.
Everyone *might* need all the grip and balance they can get if they ever need to do an emergency stop for real.
All the cars in my family have matched, correctly inflated and balanced quality tyres with >3mm tread, they're worth every penny.
A
An ALPINA B10 V8.
My Mum's Micra gets tyres in pairs too though.
My rears are wider than the fronts so no rotation for me. :)
I expect 12-17k from rears, a little more for fronts but I run fairly soft compound tyres optimised for grip rather than ware.
I do a wee bit of hooning myself... 8)
2-3k is maybe a little low but I wouldn't keep a tyre with >1mm less tread or one that had developed "shape" through wear, not my car nor my Mum's... A
Agreed.
No matter how good the suspension, brakes, engine or whatever you treasure your car for is, the tyres are all that stop you becoming part of the next local news report.
The message from "Tim S Kemp" contains these words:
No matter how good the tyres the brakes are all that stop you becoming part of the next local news report.
Just as valid a comment.
If it comes to that axles are quite useful too. About 15 years ago I drove a Transit from work on a round trip of 200miles, the next day while being moved on the parking lot the front wheel fell off! The axle had fatigue fractured and sheared though, it had the classic tide marks where it had broke a bit and then polished the fracture surface and gone a bit more. What we couldn't tell was if the initial fracture had been long standing or if it had started while I was driving. High Cycle Fatigue or Low Cycle Fatigue?
Only takes a nice sunny Sunday and you can still find cars like MG Midgets with a wheel hanging out the front.
-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!
You can steer without brakes.
The message from "Tim S Kemp" contains these words:
Ah, so it's the /steering/ that's so important now, is it?
I had a drivers seat collapse through a rusty floorpan once. That wasn't very safe.
The message from "PC Paul" contains these words:
URFredFlintsoneAICN£5
You can claim no £5 as often as you like ;-)
Probably would have been faster to run along anyway. It was an 1100 'Popular Plus' Mk II Escort...
The message from "PC Paul" contains these words:
Ooops! It started as a lower case M by mistake, and didn't get backfilled properly.
On 01-Jun-06 06:26:09, Peter Hill said
Guys, thanks very much for the information and advice.
All the best, Angus Manwaring. (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)
I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga Game reviews by Amiga players
But by your reasoning why dont we stop trying to make anything safer at all and just get on with making do with the best we have now? Bungalows are a very poor analogy.
J
Because it isnt financially viable to choose the very best, as i have already said. My point was that the cost/performance 'graph' as it were tends towards flattening with little performance gain after a set point, and that it doesnt make sense to pay less but get disproportionately lower stopping power. If you cant see that i give up trying to explain it.
Whats adequate? Usually about 5 yards shorter than the distance to the car you're going to hit. Of course theres a trade off, as i have said several times now and you keep arguing the same point ? As I have already said, again, I dont pay for the very best as the difference in performance is very small for a very large price gain. But I wont save myself a little AND lose a large amount of stopping ability.
My personal value level is only more valid when you run into the back of me when i've managed to stop. Twice now ive had cars run into the back of me when i have managed to stop for an obstacle. Both times the vehicles had pathetic excuses for tyres. I now suffer continuous neck pain from THEIR poor tyre choice. Hence I find people taking the "cheap is good enough for me, i drive safely" attitude quite annoying. Maybe when you've had the same, or when you've had someone run into your arse and leave you with physical damage you'll tend towards my thoughts.
I'll be that you're the type that leaves tyres on until they are at
1.6mm too, despite wet stopping distances having been increased by more than 30% (IIRC, cant remember the source but I'll try to find it) over 2mm tread, just to eek out those last few miles before you have to fork out too. Again this is an area where >2mm tread makes little difference to stopping but
Bizarre. You accept that you personally have a point where you're not prepared to pay more for increased performance, but don't accept that others may have a different point.
Perfect is such that they never cause an accident in your lifetime. Adequate is the same without the future element. It's worked quite well for me so far.
Perhaps if you'd had crapper tyres you wouldn't have been rear ended :-)
Thing is, not only have I not rammed other people despite my clearly (to you) insanely dangerous tyres, I've also not been rammed by others. It's actually a similar problem - I drive so the chances of me having to stop hard are rather lower than for an 'enthusiastic' driver. Not having to stop hard means I don't hit things in front of me, but also people don't ram me from behind like happened to you.
I'm not asking you to agree with my choice of what to buy. I'm asking you to accept that different people have different choices. I'm not forcing you to buy cheap tyres - why do you seek to impose your value decisions on me?
clive
No, i just question where your choice of point is.
No, i'd have rear-ended the other car that stopped lol, being rear-ended was the lesser of two evils :)
I do accept it, im just asking you to question where your choice lies thats all, as you have made me question my point. You have some good arguments, i dont mean to sound forceful - i just tend to get over-enthusiastic when i believe in a point, sorry! Its nice to argue with someone who makes coherent arguments and actually deserves a second thought!
J
Flattery will get you everywhere :-)
The only time I've had an issue with grip was rather a long time ago, with a set of fairly new ATS own brand tyres. I was probably going too quickly.
Since then, it's always been ok. I've moved on from the part worn remoulds I had for a couple of years (one of them did just about throw its tread in Luxembourg :-). I was in the back at the time, and was woken up by a little thumping noise. Stopped on the HS, discovered what it was, drove to the nearest proper stop, and swapped the tyre. Unfortunately it was at the bottom of the boot, and it was quite well packed :-) ).
Nowadays I go to the local tyre place and ask him for recommendations for something moderately cheap - not "as cheap as possible". It seems to work quite well.
I'm afraid it's experience which is counting here : despite all the worries people are mentioning here, I don't actually have problems with them. It is a bit amusing that some of the people who are implying I'm a dangerous loon for not buying expensive tyres actually have a rather worse accident record than me (like I said, I don't appear to have problems with not hitting people, and similarly other people appear not to be hitting me). Could it be risk compensation in action?
cheers, clive
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