Diesels

Part of this is associated with the car of course rather than just the engine. Some modern diesels are quieter than their petrol cousins.

Yes and where's the fun in this?

Both engines have development in the pipeline. A similar generation diesel will be more economical than the weany rev-the-nuts-off-it petrol donk, heh. :-p

Petrol engines are also developing, e.g. VW TSI engine. Also the planned Fiat T-Jet engines 1.4L 150bhp. Petrol engines are more refined than diesels, require less oil change and don't produce particulate smoke. A test of of Citroen C1 1.0 petrol with 1.4 Diesel model showed same economy ~61mpg with the petrol having an edge on performance. It will be an interesting battle ahead.

What dribble is this on your chin?

A vehicle's 0-62 time is academic for the vast majority of people, most of the time. Imbiciles who like burning out their clutches may quibble that one car takes a claimed 8.9 seconds and another takes 9.0 seconds.

How long do you think a modern bus takes to get to 62? Or a long haul train? Or an airliner? Or an unladen and de-restricted HGV?

Especially when compared to the competition:

2007 Focus 2.0 TDCi 0-62 in 9.3s, 126mph, 50.4mpg

Chris

Sorry but when you're trying to overtake another car a bit of acceleration is quite useful. 16.7 seconds is dire.

But you can always hear when someone is starting up a diesel car, even modern diesels which are supposed to be quieter. Only the top end BMW and Merc are reasonable quiet.

There is a trend of turbo petrol cars for drievability and economy rather than outright tarmac burning performance. E.g. Saab and now more extreme in the VW TSI. Hence much the same relaxed driving properties as diesels.

No-one in their right mind would buy a Golf SDi for performance. In fact, IMO no-one in their right mind would buy an SDi when the TDi exists.

But that's not like for like. Compare the TDi golf with that focus.

Then compare the price and handling, and buy the Focus.

Mk5 Golfs are bloody awful things.

Noise outside the car is not relevant. As for this "reasonably quiet" argument, that's nonsense. There are a bunch of old cars where on the motorway you can't tell what the donk is.

To a degree, yes, but there's a huge amount of stigma attacked to the perception of small engines and relatively large cars. Ford for example produced a prototype lightweight Mondeo with a 1.25 Zetec-SE engine, but figured people won't want a 1.25 litre Mondeo.

One, in-gear acceleration is different to off the line acceleration. Two, if the driver is unable to effect a safe overtake in a low powered car, they should hand in their driving licence.

It's there as an entry level to the range and so that VW can charge more for the TDI.

Note that VAG use a capital "I" at the end of the SD or TD heh...

What has the Focus TDCi got to do with a Golf SDI?

"Pete M" wrote in message news:eikssa$bj3$ snipped-for-privacy@registered.motzarella.org...

They're useful if you desperately need a slash and you can't find a Subaru.

I agree it does seem dire, but 0-60 times merely indicate the time to 60mph from a standing start. Do you make a habit of overtaking from a standing start? ;-)

A 1.4 Fiesta TDCI has a 0-60 time of 15 seconds, but it feels much faster on the road and overtakes with ease. Its pull while actually moving is quite impressive for a small diesel. I had a Focus 1.8 TDDI which didn't have an impressive 0-60 time at all- about 13.8 secs IIRC, and it always had plenty of grunt for overtaking.

Morse

More powerful for the same fuel consumption, so they are indeed more economical! You can get 1.4 (even 1.3 IIRC) turbodiesels now which are quicker and more economical than 1.7 turbodiesels of yesteryear. Manufacturers are naturally also offering the bigger, sportier lumps as well like the 130-150BHP types, because they sell to customers who would have perhaps bought performance, and hence quite thirsty, petrols. There's plenty of smaller engined, highly economical Diesel cars out there though.

Diesels are not just about economy these days- they have other benefits as well and Diesel engines cover options from small and frugal to fast and sporty.

Is it?

Yes. Good points IMO-

Generally better power delivery than petrol on a turbo diesel IMO, so they're often more fun to drive.

Much better engine longevity if well maintained. I'd be quite happy to buy a Diesel with 200K+ on the clock provided it ran well and sounded good.

Less bore/ring wear when cold- diesel has some lubricating properties, unlike petrol which breaks down cylinder lubrication. AIUI it's less of an issue on modern cars though.

Able to run on a wide range of fuels in some cases. That could be important in the future if and when oil is rationed.

Better fuel economy for a given performance figure. Sporty power levels like

130 or 150BHP but still achieve 50mpg, can the average petrol engined car do that?

No damp starting or faulty ignition problems.

Usually better resale value.

Modern common rail Diesels have very clean exhausts.

No explosion if you crash! It's also safe during refuelling, no amount of sparking will ignite it.

Bad points IMO:

Some don't like the noise. I did find the 'pinking'/random clicking noise on acceleration (suppressed diesel knock?) on a loaned 2005 Astra DTi a bit annoying- I think I'd have preferred the good old diesel noise!

Dearer when new.

Limited rev range compared to petrol. (But the turbo makes up for that IMO)

Not all garages are completely Diesel-savvy.

Rely on turbochargers to give good peformance- when they go wrong it can be disastrous. (smaller DCi engine owners beware!)

Refuelling- it's oily and smelly stuff and if some numpty gets it on the pump handle it gets on your hands and stays there, unlike petrol which evaporates rapidly.

Can be very expensive when the Diesel pumps break.

Heavier lumps can mean different handling characteristics, though I preferred my Focus TDDI to my 1.6 Zetec.

Non-turbo diesels are no fun to drive, but AFAIK no one makes them anymore so it's irrelevent.

Basically, diesels are great used buys when the price differential to petrols is much less, but if buying new some people will need to calculate the extra cost v miles covered in its lifetime as it could take years to pay for itself. OTOH some people will pay the extra cost for a Diesel for reasons other than economy, a point many petrol advocates seem to forget.

Morse.

True, but if you want to beat a 2CV away from the lights you need a reasonable 0-62

True, but if you want to beat a 2CV away from the lights you need a reasonable 0-62

Why would you want to beat a 2CV away from the lights?

Any Muppet can accelerate quickly in a straight line.

Get yourself on a trackday.