Diesels

I've said this for many years, but Ford must be giving some significant back-handers to the media to get the kind of glowing reviews they get for what are frankly very average cars.

Have you read many magazines recently?!

Lots, but not the kind of pampering to manufacturers s**te you get in the mainstream press.

Eww. Too much information.

Point is, BMWs appear to be winning the most praise.

Maybe they pay better than Ford these days?

DervMan ( snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

How about [$nationality-of-manufacturer]=s**te ?

Just wondering, like...

SteveH ( snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

I had my 155 for about 4 or 5 months and 15k miles from new before I had to hand it back because of a job change.

In that time, the back box sheared off, the bonnet release fell off, and the alarm developed severe paranoia.

But, my gawd, I *loved* driving it...

You'll notice I didn't say they were s**te, I said I didn't like them. There's lots of things I don't like that aren't s**te, and a surprising amount of s**te things I like ;-).

Reminds me of sister in law who we got our first BX from after she'd had it bent for her. She'd been driving it around for a bit afterwards, then phoned us up to say we didn't want it after all, coz the brakes and steering didn't seem to be working. Asked if there were any lights and she said "well, there has been this one saying "STOP" for a while...".

(after fixing it we took it from 160K to 220K miles..)

BTW re the ongoing SteveH/DervMan argument - is it me, or is SteveH getting more middle aged in his arguments? :-)

cheers, clive

Funny, I was about to argue the opposite for *exactly* the same reason... ;-)

Actually I was looking at buying a 9000 a few years back ( a Carlsson? ) but a mate who has had Saabs since before they built jets and had two 900's and a 9000 told me to steer well clear as the 9000 was a big step down from the

To be fair, the 164 was the pick of the bunch, closely followed by the Saab and Lancia as joint 2nd (only because they both could be had with nutty engines) and the Fiat trailing in a distant last.

Not that the Fiat was a particularly bad car, it's just that the rest of the 'Type 4' cars were so much better.

This is always controversial among saab enthusiasts. The 900 (first generation) had a somewhat 'bolt on' design since it was really a stretched version of the earlier 99 model, but many took to its unique quirky style. The 9000, on the other hand, is a more modern design with better space efficiency from the transverse fwd. The second generation CS/CSE are more handsome as they ditched the greenhouse style rear end. The build quality was ahead of anything at the time, the car is solid as brick. I have had two rear end shunts from eager boyracers, the concertina rear bumper took it all in its stride with no damage whatsoever, it was a different sight on those VW Golf tailgaiters...

I wouldn't. I've had an Ibiza, and a fine car it was too, but not worth the extra. The Fabia is so much better value.

The seat trims are a bit nasty on the cooking ones, but the vRS really is good. I even think it looks quite nice, in and out. Like I said, not pretty, but not unatractive.

Probably not. Has your experience there jaded your view of VW ;-)? You can bet there's a Ford or ($franchise) dealer out there doing the same and worse.

We have some shit VW dealers around here, but at least one decent one. To be honest, one skoda dealer tried the 'shit trade in price and no discount' trick as well, including the bullshit 'I'll go and negotiate with the sales manager, leaving you sitting here uncomfortably' option.

It was *that* ridiculous an offer, I didn't even bother negotiation, I walked out and went to a different one. The simple fact is the dealers (regardless of marque) will try to screw you if you let them. I'm probably not a hard haggler (I don't like it much), but I'm not going to let them take the piss.

So let me get it right..by avoiding falling off the road I can go round corners faster or slower? I thought falling off the road was generally accepted as a slow way of making progress?

I'm glad you pointed that out..the way I was reading the argument SteveH was putting forward a case with reasonable backing to it. Meantime, you were appearing like a troll.

Amazing..there I was, thinking the new Golf GTI had been universally praised when all along it was actually a stinking pile of utter junk. Thanks very much, I'd never have seen the light without your expert guidance.

Indeed..it's so obvious..I'm hitting myself right now as a punishment for not seeing it before.

Partially. I continue to try VW badged products as well as VAG products on the grounds that they're not bad cars, they're just not all that. One of my primary work goals is to remain impartial and keep an open mind. It isn't always possible. I analyse stuff (!) on paper and then "for real," so I apply this sad little routine to everything else I buy, mostly. What I tend to find is that looking at the four VAG brands, VW seems a little mis-placed. Audi has the "quality" image. Skoda has the "value conscious" image, Seat has a "sporty" image, VW sits somewhere between the three. The only reasons I could think of for picking the VW of the four were access to VAG technology (TDI, FSI) and the badge. I can access TDI technology from Skoda and Seat... and pay less for it.

Like earlier this year I wanted to replace my '99 Accord with something diesel and biased towards the motorway, since a good chunk of my mileage these days is rush hour motorway. This is previous generation Passat TDI use, it's what the Passat is good at. Handling isn't a priority at the moment but a big boot is. And you know I would have one now if I could find one, except...

...because it has a VW and a TDI badge they're expensive, plain and simple, for modest on-road abilities compared to their peers. Sure, great fuel consumption and plenty see taxi use, which is a strength (mostly) but they're just not all that and not worth the premium.

To a point, yes. I'd imagine that most are (picking my words carefully) because ultimately they're a business.

We were pushing late mark three Golfs out and taking early ones back. I left because of ethics, I told my manager at the time that what they were doing was not fair to customers, the retort was that if they're daft enough to accept it, that's their loss and your bonus gain. I walked...

The one in York has proven remarkably snooty. A pity, I enjoyed the Bora TDI I tried, but they wouldn't discount the price whatsoever (despite it being finished in pavement grey with steel wheels) and insisted that if I tried everything else at the price, I'd prefer the Bora, so I may as well buy it then and there...

I've found that explaining something like, I'm not being rude, but surely it's in my interests to talk direct rather than for you to do the same? Just keeping a straight face works wonders... :-p

Hehehe. Yes. "That's business" is the excuse.

I remember borrowing a 99. It was a naturally aspirated 2.0 with a four speed manual transmission, and thinking, "oh this is odd" about the design of the dashboard, the windscreen, the instruments.

Then a first generation 900 turbo and thinking, "hmm this is the same but different. Still odd mind" and the owner was still in two minds about it, having swapped his 99 for the 900 turbo, some years before... :)

Now I find myself with a first generation 9-3, which is still odd, different and just as comfortable...

Long argued the very best of the Saabs, too. I couldn't justify a Saab 9000 CS since I was trying to reduce my fuel costs, not maintain them as they were... :)

Hmmm.

Makes for a change then. I guess if you've followed SteveH and my arguments over the past (what is it now Steve, three, four, five?) years you'll see that we take turns to troll the other... :)

It would seem that something being universally praised isn't enough for some individuals, do you think it should be for me?

I don't dislike the new GTI. I don't think it's all that, but it's a nice piece of kit.

Ahha you've triggered me sarcasm filter. Unfortunately I don't understand sarcasm.

Another green blinking light, so presumably more sarcasm.