Diesels

Partially I'm winding up SteveH, who believes anything with an Alfa Romeo badge is class leading and anything with a Ford badge is the bottom of the class.

For the VW thing, recent VW models have been a pale shadow of both their expected abilities and relative to the class. The reason why VW are highlighting their low prices is because they're not selling all that well and because they're cheap for a... reason...

It's hugely narrow minded, isn't it SteveH? :-)

It's a wind up. SteveH believes anything wearing an Alfa Romeo badge is class leading and anything wearing a Ford badge is the bottom of the class.

Actually, as a catch all, anything wearing a Fiat badge is class leading heh.

Except not being able to get the power down in a powerful rear wheel drive car results in the machine going sideways and falling off the road... having neutral handling characteristics is to prevent it from falling off the road backwards...

Pah I should have said, "how can a straight road be exciting." You snipped my next comment.

IMHO, my dislike of Fords is fully justified.

Despite all the hype surrounding recent models they've generally been hugely disappointing to drive. The quality of plastics in new ones is even worse than they were in my MkIV Scrote, ffs.

There's just the small matter of the MkV Golf and B6 Passat being their respective class leaders.

But of course it is in your opinion... this is Usenet isn't it?

For whom? For you? But you're biased towards the way Alfa Romeos and Fiats drive and wear blinkers all because you bought a cruddy old Ford, which gives you a huge prejustice against the marque.

An example would be the Ka. It's an absolute hoot to drive for what it is, that being a non-sporty sub-supermini. But instead you just insist that the donk is fifty years old and rattles, it doesn't handle, so on and so forth, whilst pushing anything with a Fiat badge.

I ran a Cinquecento for almost 50,000 miles and it was a hoot, but the Ka is quieter, handles better, grips better, brakes better, cost a *lot* less to service even with my extended service routine and had a significantly larger boot. At a cost of 15% higher fuel consumption, a smaller rear seat and marginally higher insurance.

And have subsequently driven more than a handful of more recent Fords which were average at best. Good transport for those without the slightest interest in cars, but as a car for a driving enthusiast they have absolutely nothing to offer.

But you had the 900cc lump. No-one in their right mind bought an S or SX because they had the shit engine and were suspended on pogo sticks.

A Sporting cost the same as a base model Ka.

Rubbery feedback from the steering, really poor interior trim, engines that are average at best.

Yes, they use cheaper quality plastics than older VAG products (early B5 Passats were quite amazingly well built) but they're still streets ahead of the Ford / Vauxhall competition.

If you spend half your working day in a car, it is.

This is, of course, ignoring the fact that the current Golf and Passat also drive better than the mainstream competition, have better residual values and largely lower purchase prices.

Hahahahaahahaha.

The mark five Golf drives very well. I was genuinely impressed with it. But then I tried the new Focus, which knocks the Golf into a cocked hat for driver "feel." Is the Golf a better family car? Perhaps. Is it quieter? Yes, on the motorway the Golf is certainly quieter. Does it sparkle on a lonely road in the Yorkshire Moors? Yes just like the original Focus. Whereas the new generation Focus shimmers with excitement.

What's the better ownership prospect? I couldn't tell you. The Focus knocked the previous generation Golf into a hat in the reliability surveys and going on reports so far this won't change.

What is more interesting, though, is your excessive support of the VW brand follows you getting a new one.

But are known to outdrive the majority of their peers?

Oh and I didn't preduct that comment did it, which makes no difference to the grip levels, brakes and boot space. Oh not to mention Fiat's expensive service costs.

And wasn't built anywhere near as well.

Absolute nonsence. They're not more fun to drive than the Ka. They're comparable at best.

And they make you deaf on a long run, unlike the Ka.

Mine did. Actually my Cinquecento had far worse corrision issues than my Ka. Come to think of it my Ka only rusted after it was rolled.

Have you actually driven a VW Golf, or are you just making it up?

Dad's Passat isn't as well built as my Cavalier with a Saab badge...

Something to cover the cup holder is a priority if you spend half your working day in a car?

What nonsence is this?

The Golf sure as hell doesn't, unless you reckon the Focus isn't a mainstream competitor.

Yes, driving an 1993 9000 with nice interior, I really have a problem with accepting new car models. I have heard the 'excuse' that the plastics now has to be recyclable?

I really can't be arsed. You have a Ford fetish and a very dodgy history of car ownership.

Yes, I have driven a Golf, both in normal and Touran forms. It's

That's the excuse, yes.

The 9000 was a great car - as it should have been, as it drew on the combined talents of Saab / Alfa / Fiat / Lancia......

You may well have noticed that I've had a few VWs over the years, and loved all of them.

We've had a couple of Fords, too - and I hated them with a passion.

(One of the VWs was ancient, so don't accuse me of bias regarding old Ford vs new VW)

Your car history is so s**te we really can discount most of your comments. You wouldn't know a decent car if it ran you over.

Well, neither is right, certainly for an avrage owner. I think you have to be an enthusiast to like Alfas. There's so many things right about them (engines, stlying, individuality), but they're a niche car.

It is not better to drive than the Focus. End of.

In the experience I have with a couple of fleets, they're an enjoyable drive... just not such a good ownership experience.

In *your* opinion.

Judging by every review I've read I'm not alone.