Diesels

Of course not. I just can't imagine a good reason to buy a new SDI rather than a year old TDI, seeing as how a SDI isn't much more economical (if at all, real world) and unbearable slow. The only things that have made modern diesels good are the advances in injection control/pressure, and (even more so) VNT turbos, and the SDI only has one of those.

Individual taste I suppose. I found the 206 a bit floaty. It seemed thirsty too, but then again, I did drive it like a hire car (because it was), and it was probably 50 or 60 BHP down on my normal car at the time, so it got thrashed.

I've heard a lot of complaint about the 206 driving position, but I ddin't think it was *that* bad, or the gearchange. I hated the seats, engine, and the cheap and nasty trim. By god did it rattle. Interestingly, I compared the version I drove against VAG products, and you could have had an equivalent Fabia or Ibiza for less, a Polo for about £400 more.

Ho Ho..you're lagging behind a little bit.

If cars use electronics to corner quicker then that's fine by me.

Can we return to the present please?

No..visibility was not the issue.

Off the top of my head..the IAM, Police etc?

What's with this 'visibility' thing you keep bringing up? Corners don't have to be blind and driving beyond the visibility limit is just dangerous. I was talking about interesting driving not dangerous driving.

Also, I don't *need* a car to have lost grip to find it interesting.

I disagree that it can't corner faster...

Sorry..I can see what you're trying to say but I disagree with it. If someone said to me 'have my mini 850' or 'have my M5' then 'go and have some fun on a straight road' I'm 100% sure *I* would have more fun in the M5. YMMV.

There are too many variables for that kind of comparison. My experience is that I can cover the ground quicker in a quicker car - however, I'm in Scotland not in the over populated and over camera'd south east.

So be it. We have different experiences and tastes.

That would depend on the driver of course. In the city with a delivery driver I'd suspect it to be usefully more economical. Or a taxi.

That's all relative. It'll cruise all day above the speed limit. It can accelerate with HGVs and busses. For many people they don't need any more. Or they're a minicabber.

Yup. That's the opposite to it being firm (to a point). On a motorway it's lovely and supple.

:)

It's something that you settle into. After two hours in a 206 DTurbo I had a love / hate relationship with lots of things about it.

Hated the driving position and my aching back...

Loved the 2.0 HDI engine. Mostly. Needs chipping and a BFO intercooler of course... :)

Yes. Awful.

Except the Fabia's interior is, I'm sorry to say, horrid. Thing is I *like* the Fabia. A lot. Charlie and I looked at several. I wanted a TDI 100 model, but, ewww what happened to the seat covers? The dashboard? Ewww.

Pity. Loved the Fabia on paper. Found the cooking models horrid inside. Okay to drive, okay to live with, just don't look at the interior.

And the Polo, why pay more for a badge?

I won't access the link, but, "they" considered a car that oversteered to be unsafe... thus it gained standard stability control and the spoiler.

I should have said with the prudent use of the speed limit, if you see what I mean.

Yes. It's arguably even more fun when people disbelieve you or you understand that the reason why it took you 17 minutes is because it wouldn't go any quicker, rather than, one eye for the police prevented you from exploring fourth and fifth gears...

Quite. But it does get boring, partially because no matter what you have, you want more. And also boring because overtaking somebody else in a straight is easy.

:p

Yes! This reminds me of trackdaying my Ka...

No. The electronics are there to stop it falling off the road when it would otherwise do so.

Just out of interest, where'd you get the "no skill" bit from? Oh, you mean, I say that there's no skill involved in pushing the pedal down further.

Yes. It requires no thought or *significant* ability to do this.

The point I've made is that the vast majority of cars can exceed the visibility limit, so the additional abilities of a go faster model are wasted.

We can thank the road engineers for this.

See above. The car can corner much faster. Way over the visibility limit. Exceed the visibility limit and you turn a £52,000 BMW M5 into a potentially very nasty accident.

How can a straight road be boring?

Show me a curvy road with some decent gradients.

I'm in neither location... but regardless of known or speculated threat from camera I won't exceed that grey area between limit and nicked.

I've driven one - in Zetec spec. It was s**te. Jacob's crackers box interior plastics, over-light clutch, strange drive-by-wire meaning either stalling or wheelspin pulling away, over-assisted steering and vague gearchange. I'd put it down to it being a dodgy old hire car, other than the fact that it only had 2k miles on it.

Added to that the fact that I could only have had a crappy fleet-spec. special LX, means that it's an absolute no-brainer when there's a Passat in SE spec on offer.

Have you actually driven a new shape Passat?

Most Mondeos and Passats are leased, so lease prices are what's most important to most people.

I don't need to. It has "Passat" on the back. It has "VW" on the front. It's s**te. Enough said.

Good, we've made some progress.

At least I'm basing my comments on some real-life experience.

(The only current range Ford I haven't driven is the Fiesta)

VW = s**te.

HTH. ;)

How..can you explain (current models please..no reminiscences from the distant past)?

He can't.

It's him fighting the 'blue corner', 'cos I generally say all Fords are s**te. In fairness, I've had a couple of Ford hires recently and they lived up to my expectations. (Low rent interiors, poor driving experience)

Not entirely. Traction control aids getting the power down (helps in F1 too). Also, as you've pointed out, electronics allow Audis to enjoy neutral slide characteristics in corners.

Quote forgetful DervMan: being able to accelerate quickly in a straight line starts to feel immature and boring after a while. There's no skill involved, just, get and go.

Don't know..who said that?

And I was just thinking "I don't agree with Dervman, but at least I can respect his opinion", but sorry, you are wrong.

The message from "DervMan" contains these words:

I've just bought one and though it may have many admirable features[1] an enjoyable drive is not one of them.

I wouldn't agree that Fords are s**te, but then again, the last one I drove one was a while ago. I just think that saying

is a bit narrow minded.

I like VAG cars. I *don't* like italian or french cars [*ducks out of view from Adrian & SteveH*). However, I can see they have their merits, and that people do like them, so I'm not going to say they are s**te. For a start, the only italian car I've driven was a poverty-spec Uno, and French....106 and Xantia, IIRC. Personally, I've never seen why the blue oval is quite so popular. The cars are not s**te, the prices aren't high, and most mechanics know them, so they make a good, average choice, but why are they "better" than anything else?

Dash isn't the nicest, but it's not bad for the price point, and shows no signs of falling apart. There are many worse. I've stepped down from Audi, and it's by no means foul.

The interior on my vRS is not bad, but I supsect it will be a bastard to keep clean. To be honest, the Fabia isn't the prettiest car by a long shot, but it's well built, economical, not expensive to buy, and is pretty quick.

My thoughts exactly. But if you want the badge, why not? I did it for an A3 (Golf IV with fancy trim and panels with a good £1000 premium), and never regretted it. It looked nice, was nice to drive, and wasn't too scary at trade-in.