Gasless mig wire just arrived

What sort of stock did you use it on Harry? Was there noticeably more spatter? Did you test a weld and did it seem as strong as with gas?

Ironically I've had the option of using gasless for as long as I've had my welder (probably ~14 years) as I bought the wire and feed kit at the same time.

I recently backed my PortaPak bottles because they hadn't been used for years (rental creeping up) and nearly took the Argoshield with them but do have a bit of work to do re some steel garden gates (frames) and posts so kept it. However, as I might end up doing it outside anyway, gasless could be a better solution in any case?

[Car welders] ... Would the 'outdoor' thing still apply to car sills (welded outdoors) or is gas shielding still preferred in that case?

Cheers, T i m

Thanks, Harry, I'll give it a try. Working outdoors I've been spending a fortune on gas.

Do you realise just how expensive the gasless wire is though? Normal wire is about £3 per kg depending on how big a spool you buy. Gasless is more like £10 a kilo.

I'm not sure how much gas one uses per kg of wire but I bet it's still cheaper than using gasless wire.

Having said that my own little Mig is a gasless one but I only use it once in a blue moon. The reel of wire that's on it has been on it for 20 years now. The only "proper" job I ever did with it was to fix up a bunch of holes in a rotten Fiesta wheelarch which took a few feet of welding to stitch some new panels in and still didn't seem to use much of the wire on the spool. That was done outside and I got reasonably good results given I was primarily trying to weld new panels onto rust which kept blowing out and spitting at me. It all came out a bit pigeon crappy but a good coating of Hammerite masked most of it.

In the workshop with two pieces of new steel plate I can get as good a weld with it as you'd ever want.

I'd be interested in any data for gas consumption per kg of wire if anyone's measured it. Then I could do a proper comparison of costs.

With hindsight I'd bet it wouldn't have been for me. ;-(

Over the 14 or so years I've had my MIG (I had a SIP stick welder before that) I've probably used it in earnest once (at the beginning, building some 8 x 8 tri-fold workshop doors) but then that was why I bought it in the first place. In between then and now I've used it intermittently and at today's gas rates that's ~£700 I've paid just in bottle rental. At £50 / year it's one of those things where you (I) think "meh, I am planning on using it a bit soon, I think I'll keep it for another year .." when really I should have taken it back and rented it when I needed it again (and used the gasless!).[1]

Part of the reason it's not been used more in between is partly down to having to drag it out and hook up the bottle and partly because of the things I /have/ done I've often done round mates where they also have bigger / better sets or vehicle lifts etc. ;-)

And that's also my thought re gasless

;-)

That's good to know as well (and one of my 'concerns' re going gasless).

I should imagine anyone welding regularly would just go for gas wouldn't they?

I'm still considering getting a no-rental bottle for those jobs that may be better done with gas (assuming there is such a thing) but leaving the MIG setup for gasless most the time so I can just pick it up and go.

Cheers, T i m

[1] But I think BOC charge a (£20) 'handling fee' or some such when you refill bottles so it's even more expensive if you are only doing one bottle at a time.

T i m used his keyboard to write :

Just welding couple of 1/8" thick steel plates edges together as a test piece.

More yes, but acceptable for what I needed it for. I do need to spend some more time practising with it, but I did manage to satisfy myself that it works, works with my existing MIG welder and that with no need for a separate gas - it is instantly ready to go.

Just buy a small reel of it and give it a go.

For garden gates, my first choice would be my arc welder.

They recommend gasless for use in a draft, because it is less inclined to blow away.

Dave Baker formulated the question :

My welding was working out at least £10 per session for the small bottles of gas. So for me gasless is the cheaper option.

Which about as often as I use the MIG. I use my stick welder about once or twice a month.

About as long as mine (1kg) has been on it, but not usable anymore - it was all rusted up.

Ok ta.

And you can use anti-spatter spray to at least stop some of it sticking as much (apparently).

As with all such 'craft' type jobs.

Cool.

Sorry, I have a reel already (in a plastic bag in it's box and been on the shelf in the workshop for 14 years). Not checked to see if it's still ok though.

I was wondering if people still used stick. I have a take-down motorbike trailer that needs sticking back together (I've refurbed it, new suspension units etc) and I wasn't sure if I should use my stick or MIG on that. It's mainly 3-5mm section steel (angle / box / plate) so I guess either would be ok (MIG probably 'easier')?

Indeed, but I wondered if you did it on a calm day that the gas version might still be better?

Cheers, T i m

The problem with no gas mig welding is the weld cuts deeper so it struggles on some of the tissue paper we now call car bodies and blows through

I'm confused about this. If it stops spatter won't it effect the weld? Or do you mask off an area before using? I've only used it on the nozzle and found it very effective.

I can do that perfectly well with a gas one. ;-)

I'm not sure but I guess the actual weld would burn it off whereas casual spatter near the weld may not do so so easily?

I'm sure someone will be along to tell us. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

T i m brought next idea :

I would be using a stick welder on that. I only use MIG, where the stick would be just too aggressive and burn through the steel.

Ok, thanks, time for some practice then. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. The half tonne braked trailer I built with the same stick welder over 30 years ago and has evolved a couple of times along the way is still going strong. ;-)

Gee I haven't used a stick welder for years now, the Mig is so much cleaner to weld with. Continuous wire feed, no stopping (provided you have a good duty cycle) no chipping slag, no more inclusions in the welds, less heat-less distortion, the flash is more shielded better on the eyes.

Will never go back to using a stick.

Just buy a decent MIG and use the correct gas for the material. I have a

180amp welder using Argoshield Universal and 0.8 wire. r

It's nice when it fall off by itself though. ;-)

I must admit that along with all the 1.5mm box I welded up for the tri-fold doors on the workshop I made a 120 x 120 x 10mm angle frame (heavy so I could lift stuff from it) and also used my MIG to weld that together at the corners.

Cheers, T i m

Try argon and co2 mix instead of just co2

I also have a very old stick welder, which was inherited, bought back about 1948, will run about 4 or 5 mm rods or something like 4 gauge, 3 phase. was used for fabrication at one time. This has not been used since I bought my MIG.

Out of interest I wonder if stick still prevails in any major way anywhere? Many ships, bridges, tanks and skyscrapers were built using it over a fair period of time.

And of course whilst it may not be so easy for a n00b as any wire fed alternative it was capable of some very good weld in all sorts of locations, even when being done by a bloke and not a machine. ;-)

A good mate (died at 52 [1]) was a 'coded' (did they call it?) welder and his work was a thing to behold. OK, given the perfect conditions even I could put down something reasonable but to do so predictably in all the awkward overhead or vertical conditions took something better.

Cheers, T i m

[1] From diagnosis to death was about a month. Some sort of blood / bone cancer. A lovely and highly skilled many who is still missed by many (and not just by those who need some neat welding done). ;-)

Haven't seen any around in fabrication firms for some time - its usually mig welders with a remote wire feed. Quicker, continuous no changing rods, no chipping slag.

When I was doing NDT (ultrasonic and radiography) testing, on welds in heavy fabrication and gas pipelines, found slag inclusions which rejected welds, this had to be ground out then re welded. Sometimes when they are rewelded cracks then developed in the welds from the heat generated by the weld. This does not accur as much with MIG welds.