hydraulic actuation clutch mitsubishi space star 1.3 16V

Hello,

I haven't found a posting on this in uk.rec.cars.

And I'll gladly welcome a bit of help on this.

As suddenly there is a lot of play on the clutch pedal and actuation, I won der if this is a hydraulic actuator problem. As far as I hear, there is no worn off clutch and plate, but there is a lot of play and consequently, gea rs shift difficultly into each other. The travel of the pedal under the loa d of the clutch springs is very short.

Is there a known problem with this car ? It is a 1999 Mitsubishi Space Star , 1.3 petrol 16V, with a little over 150.000 kms on the clock. Or is it a g eneral problem ? I have not much experience with this problem, I used to ad just the clutch travel on a Vauxhall Astra 1986, but that was with a thread ed wire actuation.

Gear shift seems easier when the car has been driven for a while, but I wou ld not take this to be the rule.

Many Thanks in Advance, really,

Regards,

Edwin

Reply to
edwinvantollenaere
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most likely cause of free play on clutch pedal on a hydraulic system is that air has entered the system, usually because there is a leak of clutch fluid. fix leak, refill, bleed clutch system.

Reply to
Mrcheerful

Op woensdag 2 oktober 2013 19:01:20 UTC+2 schreef Mrcheerful:

wonder if this is a hydraulic actuator problem. As far as I hear, there is no worn off clutch and plate, but there is a lot of play and consequently, gears shift difficultly into each other. The travel of the pedal under the load of the clutch springs is very short.

Star, 1.3 petrol 16V, with a little over 150.000 kms on the clock. Or is it a general problem ? I have not much experience with this problem, I used t o adjust the clutch travel on a Vauxhall Astra 1986, but that was with a th readed wire actuation.

would not take this to be the rule.

Hello,

This is what I also thought. Unfortunately, some ( a lot ) disassembly is n ecessary for that.

I thought that a worn clutch disc ( and possibly clutch plate )would cause less play on the pedal, isn't it so ?

Thanks for the reply,

Edwin

Reply to
edwinvantollenaere
[...]

No, one of the advantages of hydraulic actuation is that it compensates for any wear. No adjustment is possible.

Bleed it first, and see if there is any improvement in operation. This might only be for a short time, but would confirm that the fault you have is due to a hydraulic problem.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

If there is air in the system, rapid pumping of the clutch pedal before changing gear may help - particularly before moving from neutral to 1st.

Many years ago (1971) I had a mini, and it showed a similar problem. The clutch friction plate would stick to the drive plate, despite the pedal being pushed fully to the floor. This was apparently caused by dried oil or similar on the splines of the drive shaft, so the friction plate would not move away from the drive plate.

(Later I had to repair the gearbox, and I obviously replaced the clutch friction plate at the same time. The splines were indeed covered with some sort of gunge.)

Wen wanting to change gear while driving, with the clutch fully depressed, I would open the throttle a little more, and the car would accelerate; but the extra load would quickly be sufficient to make the clutch actually release; then I could change gear.

Starting from a standstill was more difficult; in neutral, start the engine and get it warm, then switch off. Select 1st gear, depress clutch, and start engine. Be prepared for car to move off - which it usually did, then the clutch would release - then drive away normally.

After a while I found I could drive almost completely without using the clutch - the shift from 1st to 2nd took careful timing, but other changes were easy by matching the engine revs while moving through neutral.

Reply to
Graham J
[...]

I've rearranged the order of some of the words to make more sense :-)

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

as far as I can tell from autodata it is only the diesel that has the concentric slave cylinder (that takes 5 hours to change) All the other models are listed as less than an hour to change, so they must be external. However your leak (assuming there is one) might be a hose/pipe or the master cylinder, again none of which take very long to change.

Reply to
Mrcheerful

Cheeky!

No, the gearbox was shot when I bought the vehicle. It was a mini van that had been (ab)used by a body repair shop to transport their scrap metal. First would not stay engaged at more than 1 mph.

So I know from the outset that I would rebuild it. Instructive, but having done it I know it would have been cheaper to buy a recon gearbox and fit that.

Reply to
Graham J

wonder if this is a hydraulic actuator problem. As far as I hear, there is no worn off clutch and plate, but there is a lot of play and consequently, gears shift difficultly into each other. The travel of the pedal under the load of the clutch springs is very short.

Star, 1.3 petrol 16V, with a little over 150.000 kms on the clock. Or is it a general problem ? I have not much experience with this problem, I used to adjust the clutch travel on a Vauxhall Astra 1986, but that was with a threaded wire actuation.

would not take this to be the rule.

Hi, and thanks !

Interesting. I have been looking for a good maintenance manual for this car. Is "autodata" a series of books, and you consulted one covering every type of Space Star ?

The cylinder on this car is minuscule, taking hydraulic fluid from the tank atop of the main brake cylinder assy. It seems very easy to bleed, there is nothing I should disassemble.

More interestingly : I depressed the clutch pedal a couple of times quickly, and the pedal travel which is under load of the clutch springs is already longer ! I hope it means my clutch disc is not worn off.

Thanks again,

Edwin

Reply to
edwin
[...]

GIYF!

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Did you read Graham J's post?

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Well, I will look into this soon !

I don't see a connection with my situation. Tell me please.

Thank you too.

Edwin

Reply to
edwin
[...]

If there is a leak, it's likely also that air is drawn in to the system. When you operate the pedal, instead of the slave cylinder moving, the air is compressed. Until all the air is compressed, the clutch slave won't move.

By pumping the pedal, you compress the air, and to some extent it remains compressed so that eventually you will get the clutch to actuate.

It's why you were advised to bleed the clutch as a first step to see if that improved things temporarily; you would remove the air bubbles and restore normal operation. If bleeding it didn't make any difference then you have a problem that's not necessarily a hydraulic one.

Of course if you have a leak the fault will return. It's a technique to diagnose the fault rather than fix it.

BTW, with the greatest of respect, it might be an idea to look on-line at all the resources available to help you get a basic understanding of how things work.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Hello,

I understand about the clutch pedal being depressed quickly. I'm troubled by not being familiar with any resources, especially not those on-line. I will look into it.

I had at least got past the idea that the clutch "must be" worn. Since I bled brakes a couple of times, I know I must find someone to help me bleeding the clutch 's actuation circuit. So far I did not see any leakage.

I even opened an engine, put new piston rings, honed the cylinders' surface, reworked an engine head, welded a large part of profiled plates on a car's bottom body. But I did not completely understand Graham's post.

I appreciate this input of all you people !

To point you to interesting engineering jokes about airplanes ( may exist for cars as well ) :

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an aircraft engineer going through the pilot's notes :

Pilot: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement. Engineers: Almost replaced left inside main tire. Pilot: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough. Engineers: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

Pilot: Suspected crack in windshield. Engineers: Suspect you're right.

Pilot: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear. Engineers: Evidence removed.

Thanks,

Edwin

Reply to
edwin
[...]

Any car accessory shop will have at least one type of bleeding kit that will have a non-return valve to enable the job to be done by one person.

Alternatively there will be loads on eBay. In either case they can be had for less than a fiver.

Using one of those, you could have done the job in less time than it took to type your last post!

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

Chris,

I enjoyed typing that last post ;-)

I know about a car spare parts shop I can ask for this.

Normally though, when bleeding, you loosen a threaded plug which has an attachment for a tube. Using this bleeding kit, can't air be sucked in again past the thread on the plug when you release the pedal ?

With specifically a clutch hydraulic actuator, as opposed to main brakes actuators, you can fully depress the pedal and immobilise it with a wooden stick, and then turn open the bleeding plug in the engine compartment, let the air and liquid go, tighten it again etc... I wouldn't even need a non-return valve, the clutch springs would do the job.

In each case, learned something again. Thanks !

Edwin

Reply to
edwin

greasing the threads of the bleed nipple stops air intake.

Reply to
Mrcheerful
[...]

Perhaps in theory, yes. I've never had it happen in practice.

If you are worried about it, remove the bleed nipple completely first, and apply some grease to the threads.

Chris

Reply to
Chris Whelan

All's been said, I think. Thanks for taking an interest, you all !

Cheers, edwin

Reply to
edwin

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