Still continuing the apple-and-pear comparison ( :o)), I think it's not that difficult to see that with a bendy bus, it's easier to gain back the control of the bus if the front end slides sideways than if the back end swings to the front, the tail wagging the head as it were.
Zathras (Zathras ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
I'm one of the very few people on the roads of this country who isn't.
Zathras (Zathras ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
OK, then you _aren't_ getting my point.
Are you a tyre fitter? You're stupid enough.
My Point Is Solely That It Is An Over-Generalisation Which Does Not Apply To Every Single Car On The Road. Which is how it is presented.
That's a good point and another reason why understeer might be considered safer.
All the same, new tyres on the front means better emergency stopping in the wet and you would think that would outweigh the other considerations.
You might spin trying to stop in a straight line if you swerve a bit and especially if you've got very bad tyres on the back, although that's less likely to happen with ABS which most cars have these days.
Me too!
Chris
Well your explanation and clarification hasn't been very good so far..
Ha ha..keep going..
More rubbish..where is it said that the rule applies to *every* car on the road? There will be so few genuine exceptions that a general rule will still be valid for the vast, vast majority. I don't recall the OP saying he drove a three wheeled car with two wider fronts!!
You call me stupid because I don't understand crap, vague and weak rantings trying to be arguments (I note you still haven't given ANY examples or answered ANY of my questions). You must be one of these "I'm always right" types who's in the wrong and simply cannot take it and, certainly, cannot argue his case properly.
As you've not detailed any relevant and superior qualifications or expertise in this matter, I hope you don't mind if I stick with the genuine experts on this and not some amateur opinion.
Because it's bendy.
That's not even apples and pears, it's apples and Brillo pads.
Zathras (Zathras ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
OK, so it doesn't apply to all cars. Thank you for agreeing with me.
One question, thoughj - why are you shouting "Do you know better than the tyre manufacturers?" without bothering to find out what car is being asked about? After all, it might very well be one of those exceptions.
No, I call you stupid because you think that an over-generalised poster on the wall in a Kwik-Fit waiting room - which you now admit does not apply to all cars - takes precedence over direct personal experience.
You agreed with me a moment ago, and are now disagreeing with yourself...
That's the opinion I have - that aquaplaning during braking is more of an issue than oversteer. I've always just replaced the tyre which is worn (usually the front) - no swapping around etc and I've never experienced oversteer - but I have experienced aquaplaning - particularly on a dual carriageway near us which regularly has standing (or flowing) water running across it during heavy rain. Thankfully I've never had to brake or change direction whilst it's happening.
If you took the "new on the rear" rule to its natural conclusion, you should swap the tyres front/rear once the front tyre tread became less than the rear - not just when replacing tyres.
I'm not saying that "new on the rear" is wrong - but that I've never had a problem with having new tyres on the front, never understeered, and based on that, would prefer have better grip on the braking tyres.
True - if my new fronts are aquaplaning, I can only assume that my (old) rears are too - particularly with the lower loading. Then you really are on castors and nothing is going to stop you!
But if your (old) fronts are aquaplaning and your (new) backs aren't, then you will get a little braking and your back end has some grip, but little compared to the front's contribution. Just means you'll go in a nice straight line across the central reservation rather than spinning.
If your (new) fronts are getting grip and your (old) rears are aquaplaning then you can brake (in a straight line) and stop much faster. If you turn, there is a chance that your back end will oversteer.
Which would I prefer?
a.) Straight line across central reservation (but no spin and no stopping) b.) Good braking in straight line, but possibility of spinning if swerving.
Difficult to answer when you don't know what situations you'll meet. I think I'd probably go for (b) based on previous lack of encountering oversteer despite having had new tyres on the front. Maybe it's just my driving style is less "on the edge"?
D
Anybody driving one of those exceptions is highly unlikely to be asking such a question & if they are then there'll be virtually no disadvantage to putting them on the back.
In most cases that will still be true though.
Duncan Wood ("Duncan Wood" ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
Not at all. Can I refer you to the person who posted direct experience with a Previa?
Until they need to brake hard.
I've not said otherwise. My point is solely that "Most is not all".
*waves*
me three! :)
Where it makes negligible difference.
A somewhat pointless point as we're not talking about a law & you can substitute "almost all" for most.
I'm not talking about a jack-knife. Focus on the moment when the wheels break away and start to slide. At the front, turning the steering front wheels controls the forward direction and a chance of regaining control. A slim chance in untrained hands, true; but at the back, there is no means of control; hence chances of righting the wrong....zero. Oh, this is in slow motion by courtesy of wintry ice on the road. There is no such nicety with a four wheeled car on normal road at speed.
Tyre breaking away is on topic. Tyre quality, wear rate, understeer, oversteer.....etc. are OT!
You've lost me. Are you saying that if you have a bendy bus it's best to fit new tyres at the back? If so, I'll take your word for it.
Lin Chung wrote: [...]
ITYWF that this is uk.rec.*cars*.maintenance, so I would consider any discussion on bendy buses is pretty much off topic...
Chris
As I am bored on motorways, I spend time studying wheel variations of lorries. I have seen up to 22 tyres on a lorry, what a headache decision it must be deciding where new tyres should go.
If your not driving on the edge you'll not slide at all, however as I stated earlier, A (straight line understeer) means the airbags, seatbelts, front crash structure, tensioners etc can do their job, B (maybe spin) means you could present yourself to the first available obstacle side on, killing you or your passenger with the side impact.
For those who don't really understand the difference between understeer, oversteer etc.:
Understeer means you hit the fence forwards Oversteer means you hit the fence backwards Power is how fast you hit the fence Torque is how far you carry it.
(I think that's how it went - got it off here a while back...)
Clearly always on the back axle - think of the children for God's sake!
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