Proliferation of lights

No sensible one.

Not according to HWC.

Chris

In news: snipped-for-privacy@hellfire.co.uk, Cicero wittered on forthwith;

Nope, decent cars have been fitted with under bumper fog / spot lights for at least 30 years. Admittedly as an option in a lot of cases.

It's just that for some reason wankers drive round with them on as if to look "prestigious" or "sporty".

These are more often than not the same people who buy cars judged entirely on the softness of the dashboard.

It's probably because most cars these days cars are fitted with foglights, but using them in other than low visibility conditions is illegal, and can result in a £30 fine. Those that leave them on all the time must be stupid to take such an unnecessary risk.

Has there been a change in

Nope. Mike.

My dad had a mondeo from work which had 'driving lights'. He used them all the time with his headlights until he got pulled over by the police for having his fog lights on. If he'd just said "sorry, didn't realise" they would have probably let him drive off but he argued the case that they weren't fog lights, they were described in the handbook as driving lights not not fog lights and demonstrated to the officers what his fog lights were like by turning them on. They still weren't convinced and I think he got points for it, which were removed when he challenged it later.

They do look like fog lights though so it's no wonder he was stopped. Modern car headlights are dazzling enough these days, even on dipped so there's no need for them.

Softness of the seats I think in his case!

peter

In message , Pete M writes

My front fogs are absolutely useless, even in dense fog. Unfortunately I have to have them on if the rear fogs are needed.

"naked_draughtsman" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

AFAIK, driving lights are fitted in the headlamp - they're an extra bulb that comes on with the high beam for better illumination - like spotlights but built in. My Primera had them, but there was no separate switch for them, only the front fogs (in the bumper) had a separate switch.

Foglights are always fitted in the valance or lower bumper area and shine at a very wide angle. The sole purpose of these is to highlight the boundaries of the road for the few feet directly in front of the car, hence they're only useful in *extremely* thick fog. So far, I've been driving for 10 years and have yet to encounter such bad fog, hence the usefulness of front foglights is severely limited. Any other day, they're only use is to let imbeciles show them off by having them on with sidelights instead of headlights.

Stu

Not always; my Merc E-class has them built into the headlamp unit; the inner section.

I find them very useful as supplementary illumination on country lanes too. As they're set low, they don't dazzle oncoming drivers.

The Merc has this aspect covered (along with the rear fogs, which IME are a worse problem) - the headlamp switch is rotary, and the fog lamps are activated by pulling the knob - a further pull switches on the rears. A simple but cunning cam arrangement prevents either being operated without dipped beams, and furthermore turns both off when you switch the headlamps off. So it's impossible to leave the rear fogs on for later in the day.

If only other manufacturers could follow this idea; simple but effective!

Chris Bolus ( snipped-for-privacy@RILEYELFb0lus.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Yet it's impossible to have rear fogs without fronts. Stupid design, shared with FAR too many other manufacturers.

My XM has two separate buttons for front and rear fog - the rear fog doesn't latch, so when you turn the lights out the rear fogs go off and don't come back on next time. Unfortunately, the front fog switch does latch, so they "stay". The Rover 416 (45 shape) I had as a co.car when they first came out was the same.

My Old Renault Clio, will only allow them on with Dipped Headlights.

I was allways under the opinion that fogs lights are useless above

Surely they are using there fogs in daylight is because they cant see, Or is it to make them look more aggresive.

df

The Pug 406 does similarly. It has a two position fog lamp switch on the light stalk. The first position puts on the front fogs, the second does the rear. Why? The other way round would be more useful. I must see if I can rewire it.

My Old Renault Clio, will only allow them on with Dipped Headlights.

I was allways under the opinion that fogs lights are useless above

Surely they are using there fogs in daylight is because they cant see, Or is it to make them look more aggresive.

I use mine when going down dark unlit country lanes - they pick out the edges of the road a lot better than the headlights, meaning I'm less likely to catch any rocks, rabbits, etc that may have strayed onto the edges of the road :)

Hellraiser............>

CRAP Fog lights dazzle other drivers (front or rear) especially in the rain a good rule of thumb is switch them off if you can see the car either infront or behind otherwise you are dazzling other road users increasing the chance of an accident.

The 156 has a pair of switches for front and rear fogs that don't latch

- so you can't accidentally drive off with the fogs on.

The other sensible design feature is the headlamps that switch on and off with the ignition. I suspect most drivers would hate this - but I'm used to bikes which all do this.

Around here, it's because the idiots are afraid of the dark.

I agree entirely.

I don't know what the current regulations are but it used to be that any light that was below 24 inches off the ground was classed as a fog light and could only be used in fog, falling snow or driving rain. It was the height that designated it legally as a fog light, whatever the manufacturer might call it. The reason was simple, the lower they are, the more they dazzle oncoming drivers.

Fog lights used to be useful because in thick fog, being lower the driver got less glare back off the fog than with headlights.

Thing is these days... we don't have fog anymore!

Now when I were a lad... I remember walking home from school on a foggy night, and falling off the pavement into the road because I couldn't see the kerb!!! Now that's what you call proper fog! Not like these weedy slight mists that we get these days that mean you have to slow down from 70 to 60 on the motorway and everyone puts their "foglights" on. The reason I was WALKING home from school is that the buses had stopped running, and so did all the other traffic when one of these "proper" fogs came down.

So, although my current car has "foglights", they never, ever get turned on as we don't have fog anymore!

BobC

You need to drive the Fenwick Moor most winter nights! :-)

The last time I drove a BMW it was sensible too. Two separate buttons for front and rear, both of which cancel if you turn the lights off.

Especially when idiots turn them on in the rain, so they reflect back off the road.

As opposed to reflecting forwards?