Rover 220 diesel

Ok, so what do you drive normally and what didn't you like about the diesel?

Chris

No, the same applies to most French cars these days... I just sold my 307 D Turbo a week ago, the previous car was a W reg Laguna 2.0 RTi... very nice, powerful and comfortable to drive and no problems at all apart from normal wear and tear items.

These days PSA just seem to have lost the plot with regard to anything other than styling and Mercedes seem to be going the same way... all interested in flashy gadgets that are too fragile to be fitted to cars. Common rail systems are great as long as they work but it is too easy to bugger them up by either misfuelling them or doing some work on the system and leaving a little dirt in it which then eats the high pressure pump. And then you have the dual mass flywheels etc. etc.

I think there is a market for a simpler lighter car still the same size as Focus and another the size of a Mondeo that has a good direct injection engine (like the Rover L series with some work done on it to smooth it out a bit) old fashioned electrics (read non surface mount components) and a German made ECU that doesn't integrate half the other electrical systems in the car.

Chris

In news: snipped-for-privacy@bt.com, Chris Dugan wittered on forthwith;

What do I drive normally?

'99 Audi A6 V6 TDi Avant, '89 Golf GTi Mk2, various Mk1 Mondeos, '92 Bentley Turbo R, '89 Mazda MX5, '02 Focus Zetec automatic Mk1, '52' Ford Excursion V10,'93 Land Rover 90 TD, '95 Peugeot 405 Diesel Estate (non turbo, poverty spec, 200k+ miles), '82 Golf GTi Mk1, '95 Cadillac Fleetwood, '04 Renault Espace, '06 Merc C280 CDi V6, '00 Mitsubishi Legnum VR4 Estate, '07 Mercedes Sprinter LWB. I drive all of the above on a pretty regular basis.

The Rover 200/400 Diesels handle, ride and generally drive worse than all of the above. The engines are horribly gutless, the handling which is excellent on the petrol is dire on the diesel - due to the extra weight, performance is atrocious (barely quicker than the NA 405D), the interior is somewhat cramped and very dated, the ergonomics are tragic and the build quality is dire - even compared to the Cadillac. The Rovers barely handle any better than the Land Rover 90 and at least the 90 is amusing to drive.

The interior, ergonomics and even the build quality are excuseable on the petrol ones because they drive ok, the diesels have nothing going for them at all apart from being ok on fuel.

Because they (we) are lazy and don't understand what turns a small problem into a big problem.

For somebody who thinks their time is worth a lot, yes - one trip to a garage rather than three or four.

S'ah okay - I just didn't want you thinking something of me that isn't, meh...

That's not so much the manufacturer by itself, but driven by consumers.

Unfortunately this happens with the vast majority of cars rather than the common rail machines. Many common rail donks last just fine, subject to how well they're looked after.

A few years ago - and if you ask Burgerman it's still the case - all turbodiesels were complicated, fragile things with delicate turbochargers and injection systems.

Perhaps - providing it can be persuaded to pass the emission tests of course.

Of course it all depends on the circumstances.

A self-employed friend of mine bought a quite a tidy looking (taken in PX) Hyundai estate type vehicle for £400 from someone he knew in a local garage .

He used it for carrying a triple extension and roofing ladder, it was permanently loaded with heavy equipment and regularly caned up and down the country (he's an ardent Man United supporter) for four years without him ever hardly bothering to lift the bonnet.

When it finally did let go in a cloud of blue smoke, his words were something like 'I ain't bovered' as he considered that the cost of £100 a year for something which probably paid for itself within the first few weeks was absolutely brilliant value for money... he's now in the process of attempting to achieve likewise with a 1.6 Ford Escort petrol estate .. wonder if he'll be quite so lucky this time?

||| Usually ||| it causes other problems: e.g. water leak if left can lead to a ||| blown head gasket etc. etc. || || -- || The DervMan ||

They're mis-engineered rubbish. Old rovers aren't any cheaper now (just about) than a much better equivelant from the era in which you're wishing to purchase from.

The fact is, you've likely not done the mathematics, which is a real shame, because you could have driven much better more rewarding cars over the years had you done so.

And the verdict was er, errrrr: Mechanically sound as a pound and interior perfect but the sills were rusty and so were the rear wheel arches and bonnet, mainly due to stone chips joining up and half a ton of mud/manure stuck in the wheel arches.

Ho humm, onto the next car.

Chris

Sods law as they say.

Froggie merde?

German schaissen?

I'm hard pushed to understand how anything French or VAG derived can be a rewarding drive, and as for the blue oval, forget it.

I ran one of these as my daily driver for a couple of years (the intercooled SDi model) and had a sum total of zero problems with it. I can't really compare it to my current petrol turbo Volvo S60, but it holds up well in the engine department in comparison to SWMBO's Focus TDCI.

The D/SD models are 86bhp, with the Di/SDi models being 105bhp. I've never driven a non-intercooled model, so everything I say is based on the intercooled version.

The engine is rather agricultural-sounding, but free-revving and doesn't run out of steam until the governor, unlike some of the more recent diesels I've tried. A simple air filter change and ECU remap will see a reliable 135bhp (I ran mine like this for 60,000 miles with no ill effects, even with my lead-foot driving style). Fuel economy seems to stay at about 50mpg however you drive it, so you may as well thrash it :-)

Head gasket issues are non-existent on this motor. The only issues I've heard relate to the wiring to the fuel injection pump rubbing against the bulkhead and getting chafed. This causes poor running and for the MIL lamp on the dash to be lit.

Of course, this engine also suffers from the dreaded Bosch MAF sensor issues, like the VAG TDI engine. If it's being sluggish, try disconnecting the MAF. If this improves performance at low revs, it's likely that the MAF sensor needs replacement.

Another thing that can affect performance of high-mileage engines is the accumulation of a 'gunk' in the inlet manifold. Remove the plastic cover from the engine and undo the thick metal pipe running across the top of the engine. If it's gunked up, use some carb cleaner or similar on it, replace it and you may well find a performance improvement.

The basic engine design in my opinion is at least equal to that of VAG's 1.9 TDI unit, and is very similar to the pre-PD units. I design diesel engines for a living, so have a fairly good understanding of the engines on the market. Incidentally, the engine block of the BMW

Why consider French or Ford at all? German or Japanese, the way cars should always have been. Except Nissan mind you, beginning to think they're enjoying producing laguna-standard cars!