Spark plugs unfit for purpose?

They will over some period of time deteriorate such that the spark can no longer reliably jump the gap and produce ignition at the proper time. Also I think that the general conductive reliability of the plugs may also deteriorate over time. With modern ignition systems many cars are far more tolerant of out-of-spec plugs than back in the "good" old days. Even my old cavalier ran just fine with >1mm plug gap where the spec was something like 0.7.

Bullshit. Champion, like them or not, are one of the major manufacturers and have been for a long time. Anyone with a reject rate of one in three would have gone to the wall long since.

Steve

Try telling that to my tune up guy. It's not that they don't work. Just that they are not consistantly as good as NGK plugs. He often fits several sets a day. When he used Champion, he frequently found new plugs, that on the scope were not performing as well as they should. Every few weeks he'd have a boxfull to send back for replacement. It was costing him time and money, so he changed to using NGK's. Since the change, finding a sub std plug has become a rarity rather than an everyday event. Mike.

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Chris Street saying something like:

Scratching head time when all 4 are duff from the box. Happened to me once.

Mostly NGK for me from that point on.

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember Guy King saying something like:

It's bollocks. Prolly an urbane gelned.

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "shazzbat" saying something like:

Bullshit my arse. The all-four failing experience I had was unusual, but on many other occasions, Champion plugs were a source of annoyance and irritation.

SNIP

So let's assume for a moment that we accept this at face value. I don't, but let's ignore that for the moment. Several sets per day - 4 sets maybe? that makes 20 plugs per day, maybe more, but lets say 20 for the moment. This means 100 plugs per week. And every few weeks - maybe 3 or 4 weeks? This means 300 - 400 plugs. And then he has a box to send back, yes? 10 plugs to a box still? So this means 1 in 30 - 40 plugs, not 1 in 3.

And in order to get to this situation we have to believe that a largely automated process has been turning out a high percentage of reject plugs, (which suggests that either the manufacturing process is faulty or that materials used are substandard) *and* that test procedures/quality assurance have not spotted the problem, *and* that the major customers like the motor manufacturers, dealer chains etc, have not complained, *and* that marketing have not been onto the production side complaining about the crap they're turning out being difficult to sell.

You may choose to believe these things. I'm sure your mates will agree with you, saying things like " Yeah they're crap aren't they? Fancy another pint?"

I choose not to believe these things. Even a reject rate of 1 in 30 is enough to make manufacturers put their house in order as a matter of some urgency.

Steve

I believe what I see, and when I see a scope showing 7 healthy new plugs, with an eighth with a lower reading, which when it is replaced, is the same as the others, what else can I believe? Especially when I'm also shown a box containing more Champion plugs, all of which I'm told, gave a similar faulty reading.

AFAIC it not a question of me 'choosing'. Faced with that sort of evidence, I'd be a fool if I believed anything else.

IMO you're the one with blinkered vision if you believe all manufacturers work to the same stds, and have equal quality control. Believe me they don't. NGK have gained a reputation for making good quality plugs. They earned that reputation from those businesses, and consumers in a position to compare different makes. AFAIK Champion plugs have been rejected by those same discerning customers.

But. Even the plugs the tuning guy threw out would still work. Did work. Probably beyond Champions recommended life for the plug. The point is that it would not be working at optimum efficency, with all that that means. It doesn't have to quit working altogether to have an effect on performance.

Given that, it's not that easy for the average DIY buyer to rate one make of plug against another. Even if they're not as good as they could be, they're probably better than the ones they're replacing, so the customer is happy, and Champion has sold another set of plugs. Mike.

SNIP

performance.

I can see we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. I'm involved at the sledgehammer and crowbar end of the business, rather than oscilloscopes and gas analysers.

I can accept that when subjected to these tests an occasional plug may show up wanting. But remember that you are referring to an 8-cylinder performance car, The comments I cannot accept are the ones to which I responded " Bullshit", primarily the claim that one in three was faulty, but looking back I also see the comments -

" Had a champion plug fail within one day! Fitted them again and one went in a week. Tried them, stupidly, for a third time. One died within two weeks."

Do you believe this? This suggests a problem serious enough for the driver to notice, and take the car back for rectification

"Yup, they are poo. I changed loads in Hyundais at 3-4000 miles, and they should have lasted to 10000 miles at that time. Once we fitted NGKs they lasted easily to ther next service."

Or this? This also suggests enough faults for *loads* of owners to have noticed and require attention. And failure faults at that, not slight performance loss faults.

Even in the early 80's, when most cars had plugs changed every 6000 miles, Honda got 15000 miles out of plugs. If you fitted Champions they usually did about 4000 miles.

Or this? This is not a new plug showing up weak on the screen, this is again faults serious enough for everyday motorists to have an issue with plugs failing after being satisfactory when fitted.

Thes claims are a long way from a slight imbalance on a screen, they are claims of premature failure. I said bullshit, and I say it again. Bullshit.

Steve

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "shazzbat" saying something like:

Aye, you're full of it.

Er, aren't you the one who claimed a 100% failure rate from a box of new plugs?

And I'm the one who's full of it? Get real.

Steve

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "shazzbat" saying something like:

I had the experience of fitting a complete set of four and finding them all duff. This happened more than once.

During that period I had many more individual Champion plugs that were duff out of the box.

I've only had one duff NGK in the past 30 years.

Bullshit? No.

Their HT leads are as bad IME. Had a set which lasted about 10 months and then the car started misfiring - on inspection, 4 out of the 5 leads disintegrated! Made the mistake of returning them to Champion, who kept them, insisting it was 'normal' and that they'd been 'exposed to damp conditions'(?!) or words to that effect. At that point I gave up but vowed never to buy any of their products ever again.

Pasted from your post of 180205 at 1920hrs - "Scratching head time when all 4 are duff from the box. Happened to me once."

Paste from your post of180205 at 1923 hrs "Bullshit my arse. The all-four failing experience I had was unusual, but on many other occasions, Champion plugs were a source of annoyance and irritation."

Paste from your post of 230205 at 2255hrs "I had the experience of fitting a complete set of four and finding them all duff. This happened more than once."

So it's gone from "once" to being "unusual" to having happened "more than once".

It's getting to be a more serious problem,no? Have you told Champion about this? Or is it just bullshit still?

Steve

manufacturers

oscilloscopes

I agree. Some of the comments do appear to be a little exaggerated, but even allowing for that, it would appear that Champion plugs are not regarded as highly as those made by NGK. IME that opinion is quite justified.

BTW, the car concerned was my SD1 Vitesse. Not exactly a 'performance car' by todays stds. :-)

In any case, performance car or otherwise, I suspect the difference between a good plug and one not so good, could be relatively significant over a plugs life of say 10k miles. Even 0.5 mpg less in fuel consumption, adds up to 5.5 more galls of fuel on a car that averages around 30 mpg, so it makes sense to fit plugs that can be relied upon to perform to consistantly high stds.

Fit NGK. You know it makes sense. :-) Mike.

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "shazzbat" saying something like:

It happened more than once - do you have a problem with comprehesion, or are you just a retarded argumentative wanker?

Oh right, so when someone points out that not only are you talking bollocks, you are also contradicting yourself, making up this bullshit as you go, you resort to foul language and abuse.

Nice chap.

Steve