I'm looking for another car to do my long weekend drives and commuting, need plenty of space (also considering a van) but I'm willing to sacrifice style and refinement for economy (to some degree!) and would like it to be relatively cheap to insure. I've been looking around at the Astra 1.7DTi's that claim up to 70mpg - seems impressive if true? So far my shortlist seems to look like this, all estates:
Astra 1.7DTi Audi A4 Passat Octavia Something from Nissan/Toyota but I'm struggling to find info on them. Van - Vauxhaul combi/ Berlingo....
306/406
Whos figures (if any) can you trust reasonably for MPG figures - parkers/autotraders? Ive got my toy car for weekends (even if its dead at the moment) so I'm happy to sit at 70 on motorways and not thrash this, so I suspect I should be fairly close to test figures?
Which cars are you on about? Most of the cars you've listed have several variants. They've been making Passats for donkeys years, there are 2 phases of 306, about 5 Astras, 2 or 3 A4s... I assume you're on about spending at least £2k as I couldn't find any decent Octavias below that sort of money a while back.
First of all - vans suffer on the economy front, and they're noisy as f*ck. I assume you'd be doing a lot of mileage if you're particularly interested in fuel economy, and I can tell you that a van is not a pleasant place to be for long periods of time, particularly on the motorway. The Berlingo is based on the ZX / 306, and the 1.9 XUD seems to be indestructable.
The other thing is that some of these cars have stupidly short service intervals. I'm looking at a 406 myself, and the service interval for the oil burner is something daft like 6000 miles according to parkers (that goes for the XUD in the Berlingo, 306 and 406 too, and IIRC this engine went into a lot of Rover diesels as well). My 20 year old Golf has a longer service interval...
In other words, you could buy something that's saving you a couple of quid a tank but having to be serviced twice as often, at £100 a pop if you're not DIYing.
AFAIK there are relatively few older Japanese diesels barring 4x4s and vans as they don't allow it for cars in Japan due to the particulate emmissions.
Well part of the problem is im not 100% sure yet, I'm looking for opinions and ideas - I'm not opposed to going for an older car/van if its good. Assume newer, unless older is better :) Thats the sort of price range I'm looking in, but I was thinking about going higher if it was really worth it.
Certainly larger vans seem to suffer, the car based vans (combos etc) dont seem to get much different to the estate versions they were bodged from? I'm not too worried about noise - I'll be lining them, plus my other toy has a near-straight-through 3" exhaust and leaves me with a headache after
3 hours on the motorway, plus well out of pocket due to returning 17-21mpg, plus its service interval is 3K miles with fully synth! I'm looking at doing possibly 600 miles a week and was considering a van as I take mountainbikes and kitesurfing kit everywhere most weekends too. I rarely have more than one person to carry but I suppose if theres no difference in other parameters, the estate would be quieter and more "comfy".
6K seems nice to me, but I see where you're going. Modern diesels will need these tighter intervals due to tolerances and heat/power production in a compact engine etc I presume.
Willing to DIY anything so no issues there.
Ahh that explains it. I know the newest primeras and almeras come with a
2.2dci but earlier models than that are like hens teeth, I think autotrader had 2 in the country last time I looked lol.
I averaged 38mpg out of a Berlingo Van over 45000 miles 10 years ago. They're ok to drive, but noisy as f*ck as Doki says and horrid for long journeys.
A late model 306 would do what you want, a non turbo would be boring but unbreakable.
Like everything of course, "depends on how you drive them." The Extra Urban mpg figure is possible under optimum conditions, which means lots of warm engine, warm temperatures, moderate speeds. Think: trailing HGVs in the spring on the motorway for lots of miles. I run a 2000 Saab 9-3 with the
2.2 litre boat anchor of a diesel engine *but* it still returns high 50s under the above conditions.
Drive them hard and they'll not be anything like as economical as this. But from your other post, 30 to the gallon would be economical.
Dull to look at, but personally I rate the way the Astra handles and rides. The 1.7 diesel isn't inspiring, but it doesn't need to be.
Tend to be hard riding, well built, boring.
See above but not as firm, not as well built and boring.
Should be a cheaper alternative into VAG TDI technology, but tend to be expensive.
These three machines use VAG's TDI donks. TDI is relatively noisy, can be rough too, but, well proven and tend to be very economical. Some of that is down to sky high gearing.
Nissans have used Renault diesels for some time and I'd personally opt for another one.
Toyota's DI-D donk hits the spot nicely; but they're hard to find.
Would be my choice. That's primarily because either of these machines has a tried and tested, well proven, refined diesel engine - either the older XUD or the newer HDI donks. They may not be as well build as the VAG option but they're a nicer drive, as a rule of thumb.
If you are looking at the 406, the older 1.9 and 2.1 TD models are not especially economical for what they are. We saw high 30s from our 406 XUD models. The HDI donks would see high 40s. This is from sticking to the motorway speed limit and "not being silly."
Maybe! It'll depend. See above. :)
Another sensible alternative is the Mondeo. The TDDi is the Mondeo diesel that everybody loves to hate but for your purposes, it'll do just fine - and doesn't have the same price premium as the TDCi.
For 600 miles a week I'd seriously consider something with cruise control and superb seats. That's part of the reason why I went with an older Saab model. The TiD is hardly the last word in refinement in the city but it's a decent enough and very comfortable motorway machine.
I'm in a fairly similar situation. I ended up with the following shortlist:
Passat 1.9D estate, probably a 99 model. IIRC I discounted the A4 as it's basically a Passat. Skoda Octavia Estate
406 Estate Mondeo TDCI estate, though as others have mentioned, the TDDI engine is supposedly not as bad as it's reputation, it's just not as good as the HDis and the like. None of the BMWs or Mercs really floated my boat - either very old for the price or a model that likes to disintegrate in the rain.
I ended up going for a 406 after a mate rang me up with a cheap one that's coming off a company scheme.
I did a thousand miles a week in a Citroen Despatch (next size up from a Berlingo). The back end was ply lined. It was noisy as hell and I ended up hating the bloody thing. The main issue is massive wind noise from the big sliding doors, which they don't bother to design out, because it's a van... I can't remember exact economy but think in the order of 30mpg and you'd not be far off. It's very good for putting big things into the back of, but it's not something I would choose to have unless I really needed a van. Apart from that, the clutch is heavy, the accelerator is heavy, and the acceleration is glacial (bear in mind this was a non-turbo). The other big issue for me is that these things are designed to carry some weight, and an unladen van's rear end bounces and booms over bumps. And I swear you could feel the chassis flex...
If I were you, I'd go for an estate. I do a fair few miles, and need something that can carry a decent amount of gear, be it 3 or 4 people with overnight bags and kit, or me and some mates and bikes (there's the possibility of getting 3 or 4 of you in an estate if you can get away with only folding one side of the rear bench). You can get 3 in the front of the Despatch but it's very cosy, and bloody uncomfortable if you're all 6 footers.
A bit more googling suggests HDis will do 10000 or 12000 depending on year, which is nice. If you do go for a 406 HDI, the 110 is the one to go for. Lower car tax, higher MPG and more go.
You've yet to see under the bonnet of one ;). What's DIYable really depends on how determined you are.
Clutch job on my GT4 became an engine, box and transfer removal job, which also involved removal of the front driveshafts and prop shaft, entire electrical loom, removal of the turbo and manifolds from the engine in order to wangle the engine out, as well as the rad, seperation of the power steering pump to let it wiggle round and removal of the two lower crossmembers to give me access to wiggle. Decided to change the box while it was out, cleaned and polished the bay, lagged the exhaust from head to tailpipe, welded up a couple of brackets to better support the exhaust.
So im not afraid of a little DIY :) But I'd rather not do that on a commuter machine, I reserve that sort of effort for my toy!
So I think I'm narrowed down to just about all of them still lol. Been to see a few, seen a nice 306HDi which was 3K but was in minty mint condition, bit too expensive. Saw an '02 Citroen Xsara HDi with 90K miles for 1800, on arrival it was the biggest heap I've ever seen, half of the interior was falling off and almost nothing on the electrical side worked. Engine was nice and smooth but was COVERED in diesel.
Still on the lookout, thanks for all of the tips, some great info there!
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