first step towards bike test + BMW going

Debatable.

Some of mine had 300 rear wheel plus. So something like 140 feels broken. All rattly and revy without much go.

Yeah, but you're not normal..

I am. Its just relative. If you are used to a hybusa it doesent feel fast. It feels "normal" cos you do it and have it every day. You get used to it. Then get on a 400 or 600 and try not to feel rather underwhelmed. Thrashy and rattly and revy but little in the way of the acceleration you are used to. If you are used to a 125 then even a 400 feels "fast" doesent it. But its really not when you are used to / fed up with it.

Erm, how can I put this.... you're talking s**te.

There are limits, however, and 100bhp diesel rep-mobiles fall well under this.

Around 150bhp is just fine by me in a car.

I've been weighing up the pros and cons of going for a 170+ bhp oil burner and decided that it's completely pointless.

Buy a Hornet 600 - it's basically a Bandit built by Honda. Proper model name is CBF600. There are some other combinations for extra fairings. But they're cheap as chips anyway. Our 05 plate was like £2,800 18 months ago, from a dealer. It has 95bhp - it's faster than most cars, but not that fast. It'll do 140mph as well - but cos it's unfaired, it's a bit blowy. Unfaired is better for you as a learner/newb cos if you drop it it won't smash the ludicrously expensive plastic fairings.

After about a week of riding you won't go "Wow" when you wind it on anymore, you'll just go "Meh".

errr no thats gay!

hmmm looks ok, if you can get it in black sold! lol

Gah!

Monster Dark. YKIMS.

The Hornet is less likely to go wrong, and I think I'm right in saying needs less maintenece and costs less in this department as well. Also I beleive the Hornet makes more power.

I'd have the Monster though cos it's cooler.

This is true.

Indeed.

Maintenance on an air-cooled Ducati isn't that hard.

Maintenence on anything isn't hard -

Find suitable recommended man Throw bike a him Collect later and pay man Ride home safe in the knowledge you haven't rounded off some nuts, snapped a couple of bolts off in the head and burnt yourselt by trying to work on it too quickly.

:-)

Heh. Although the servicing costs on water-cooled Ducatis are about double what they are on the air-cooled bikes.

Meh read below. You're right, but I do have a point.

It depends on what you're looking for, but you're writing like I would, if you see what I mean. Whatever I run is condemned for a life on the motorway, where it doesn't need 100 bhp let alone 150 bhp to cruise at 70 all day, every day.

Off the motorway, yes I agree; there are "underpowered," "comfortable," and "everything else" with regards to overtaking abilities. Something like (thinks) a 1.4 Focus is in the "underpowered" camp. The 1.6 could be either underpowered or comfortable, the 1.8 is comfortable.

I can't think of a single modern diesel that is firmly in the underpowered camp. Stuff like the 105 bhp Passat or 9-3 1.9 TiD 120 isn't rapid, but it's more than capable of punting past doddlers inside the speed limit plus

20 or so, which for 99% of my driving, is more than I need. That said I'm more than happy to row along at 55 rather than whip past just to cruise at 60 and your mileage may vary. Also, the lower powered machines usually have marginally lower CO2 outputs, which may not seem important now, but just wait for the Government to change the bandings again...

Then drive a 120d, which is probably one of the top three all rounder company cars in the statistics game. It's going to be as economical than the 118d for 99% of driving conditions although the current one has ubertall gearing (and I thought my Saab's gearing was tall...). It also feels very lively on the road if you're happy to change gear often (thinks: the automatic 118d didn't feel any slower than the 118d manual, but I have not tried the 120d automatic, so it may also feel pokey).

Back to back, I'd take either, but the price difference (£1,600 if I recall correctly) is about right given the difference in feel. One feels, well, typical pokey turbodiesel but the other one feels positively rapid but sometimes quite hard work. 'Course the solution here is the automatic...

Gay? How so? It's quicker round the twisties than pretty much any sports bike, and quicker on the straight bits than pretty much any car, it's comfy, economical and pretty exclusive. It looks a bit like an elongated egg, but I'd rather have one than pretty much any bike. I must be gay; SWMBO will be upset.

It is?????

and quicker on the straight bits than pretty much any car,

The sticky-out wheel thing means that you can lean over to >50 degrees, whereas even your typical lunatic bikers will rarely dare go beyond about 40-45 degrees. It's the difference between cornering at 1g (45 deg) and at 1.2g (50deg), so yup, it's pretty good for a bike...

The sticky out wheel thing actually prevents you leaning. The true lean angle that can be achieved depends ultimately on grip, and feel. Good tyres drift and slide and feel mushy at the limit so hard cornering in the dry is pretty safe. Its easy to get 45 degrees plus as this old tyre in my garage shows. Garage door end

Close up on tyre

Its off my old GSXR1100WP from a few years ago (i think? or the EFE turbo or something) As for lunatic bikers then they CAN lean that far but generally dont unless they are on track days or something. It doesent mean they cant if they wish to do so...

??????? Its probably not very good on its dubious handling chassis and touring type tyres compared to a sportsbike on sticky rubber.

But you don't 'get' the chase for power?

(c:

There's a point at which a car will become frustratingly slow. The

105bhp Passats are a good example - I recall a 0-60 time that gets trounced by a Ford Ka with the rattly boat anchor engine.

I'd say the tolerable point is a 0-60 time of around 10 seconds. One you get into the teens, driving becomes tedious.