i'm insured!

Yep, as are all big-performance Jap imports.

My boring UK grandad-saloon with a measly 200bhp is Group 17 !

It tells 99% of it.

If Vamp swapped a Group 14 car for a different Group 14 car, with the same insurer, then the premium-change would be minimal, if any.

This doesn't necessarily apply to Group 20 cars though - it's merely a catch-all for anything expensive (some of which are VERY expensive !).

Bollocks, my old Integrales (Group 18) used to cost more than my Sapphire Cosworth to insure (Gp 20), as did the RS2000 Mk5 (Gp15)

£768 to insure, FC a Sapphire Cossie (GP20). £1728 to insure FC an RS2000 (Gp 15) £1120 to insure FC a 16v Integrale.

exactly. group rating means f*ck all.

it's nearly as much for me to insure a 500 quid XR2i as a brand new Civic type R.

Nowdays insurance companies are more worried about "pinchability"

as in a rover SD1 is quick but dont get stolen/vandalised

1500 XR2i's are stolen per day. Group 20 insurance in not always an indication of performance. thats why i said early on in this thread that i didnt think MR2's should be a group 20. the performance doesnt justify it.

Mason

The insurance company i used to work at, where my parents still work, uses the group as a direct part of the equation. Doesn't matter what the car is. So, when you say 'Bollocks', you meant, 'Thats bollocks with the company i am with who are shit' :)

In news: snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de, DanTXD decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Heh, no, I didn't actually.

I've only ever once stayed with the same insurance company for more than a year. That was the company that decided my renewal on the RS2000 was £1728 even though the premium the year before was £900. I only asked how much a Cosworth would be for a laugh and when they quoted £768 I went out and bought one.

Besides, if insurance companies really took that much notice of groups my Xr4x4 should have been a lot cheaper than the XJS. Yet the average quote I had on the Jag was £600, and the XR4x4 was £2000+

Car insurance is a legal requirement. It's also a licence to print money.

exactly my point. you can steal any ford of that age with a ruler...so the XR is more than the Jag. group 20 insurance does not always mean amazing performance.

As i said, where i worked it was part of the calculation, we didn't add more on for s**te old Fords or anything else. I'm not arguing with you both here, i'm telling you how it was :)

Makes you wonder - obviously the reason an RS2000 is more expensive to insure than a 16v Integrale, which in turn is dearer than a Sapphire Cossie to insure, is all to do with claims statistics - but you'd think that the insurers would sort the insurance groupings so that they reflect the statistics, wouldn't you?

Peter

-- "The truth is working in television is not very glamorous at all. I just go home on my own at night and sit alone and eat crisps."

With exactly the same insurer, with you in exactly the same circumstances, in exactly the same year ?

No, it doesn't.

Phone your insurer right now, and swap your car for something broadly similar in the same group.

The premium change will be bugger all, if any.

Duh, that's cos they're almost in the same group !

Which is one of the core things that decides a car's group !!!!!

Usually, it is.

Well under 6 seconds to 60mph, RWD mid-engine sports car, with ~230bhp ? Performance is pretty ballistic ! As I said, my front-engine FWD 200bhp boring saloon is Group 17 !

Clearly that's why your premiums differed so much with the different grouped cars !!!!!

No no, you're missing the point here :)

The lower group only (usually) means a lower price, with the SAME insurance company ! Two different cars with two different groupings, will give *VASTLY* differing premiums at two different insurance companies.

But if you get quotes at the same insurance company for both cars, the lower-grouped vehicle will almost always offer a cheaper premium.

Far from it - the amount of profit made by your average motor insurance company, is only very slightly more than nothing ! There's so much competition in the industry, that there's no money to be had.

It's *part* of the calculation at *all* insurance companies - that's the whole point of the groupings :) Some will pay it more bias than others though...

afraid this does happen.

when the R5 died i used our spare car. an m-reg fiesta Si and my premium went UP.

modded R5 turbo with all mods declared. fiesta Si with (declared) escort GTi wheels.

Mason

XR2i's and CTR's have vastly different performance figures and one's worth

250 quid the other 16k....

it makes NO sense.

if i total the CTR and claim they stand to loose 10k plus

if i totla the 2i.....then my excess would cover it.

But the risk factor is mainly 3rd party - i.e. the risk of you losing it and plowing into a bus queue or playground or something and racking up a few million quid in personal injury claims. The capital loss of the car, even with the higher incidence of non-3rd party claims, is still relatively insignificant.

The civic, with better grip, handling, ABS and so on, is statistically less of a risk than the XR2, despite being potentially faster.

in news: snipped-for-privacy@news2.newsguy.com, "Nom" slurred :

I don't buy that. If you happen to be in the minority that searches exhaustively to get the lowest possible quote then it _might_ be true, although I am sceptical. However, most people don't do that, they just search until they find a quote slightly cheaper than thier renewal, but are often still paying 20-30% more than they need to.

Apart from that, the insurance industry _as a whole_ makes a profit from the majority of claims. The increase in premiums following a non-fatal accident, amortised over the mandatory declaration period, more than covers the cost of the payout. The risk to the industry for non-fatal claims (which is by far the largest type) is actually _negative_, and almost the entirety of the premium you pay is profit.

The situation is very different for other forms of insurance, which affects the overall profit claims, but Motor insurers DO make a profit, despite what they might claim.

But groupings aren't a universal truth between insurance companies just because a car is group 14 for one insurance company doesn't mean it's going to be a group 14 for another.

Yes, Liverpool Victoria (Frizzell), 1998, no change in circumstances at all. They were the cheapest on all three as well. I spent £50 on the phonebill looking...