Nitrous(N20) / Nitrox(EANx)

Now here's a thought.

There's a lot made about fitting Nitrous Kits to cars to boost the performance. The idea behind it being (apologies if I'm wrong) the added gas, Nitrous Oxide (N20), and the higher O2 contect in the air (36%) when mixed with the correct fuel, gives more power. Plus the cooling effect of the pressurised air stops the engine from cooking itself.

Now how about instead of using Nitrox oxide we use Oxygen Enriched Air, (EANx or Nitrox, as used by scuba-divers). Would it work? it would certainly be cheaper (15Litre 36% O2 approx £5) and availablilty would be far better (just go to your local dive shop!).

Now I need someone to calculate if it'll work. Here's what I think I know so far.

N2O is a combined particle, 2 molecules nitrogen to 1 Oxygen. EANx is a combination of N2 plus O2. That is the molecules are bonded differently.

Anyone able to take it from here?

Reply to
Jezza
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In article , snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com spouted forth into uk.rec.cars.modifications...

Byrgerman, where are you wehn we need you.

Reply to
MeatballTurbo

Safety would be your main problem. It's hard to get N2O insured as far as I know, a mixture of N2 and O2 would be murder to insure. The thing is, N2O doesn't split up into nitrogen and oxygen unless it's at 400 degrees or so, whereas having lots of o2 just floating around is rather asking for fires to start, if the system's at all leaky. If your car catches fire and the tank ruptures, eventually n2o will start burning, but by the time temperatures get to that point you should be well away, but if your car catches fire and you've got o2 leaking, it'll go up much more quickly than it would in the normal atmosphere. I know which car I'd sooner crash.

Reply to
Doki

They're not bonded at all just mixed. N2 and O2 are independent, unless my cse chemistry is wasted.

Wouldn't the fact a gas as opposed to a liquid being pumped in limit the gains as well.

Reply to
Johnny

Yep.

Whether it's a gas or liquid depends on pressure / volume and temperature if what I remember from chem / physics is right. Theoretically you could use n2 / o2 mix, but volumetric efficiency isn't really the problem with nitrous. You can get as much oxygen and fuel as you could possibly want in there with nitrous, but the engine's going to break eventually if you make stupid amounts of power.

Reply to
Doki

BTW, Burgerman might turn up and tell me I've been talking s**te :D. I've only read his webpage a few times, but he seems to know everything there is to know on Nitrous.

Reply to
Doki

I would say that the pressure would tend to drop off a bit quicker also gases tend to be more comprisable than liquids (have a look on Burgerman's site about (iirc) positioning the jets and solenoids as he has a quick run over the possible problems of the N2O being gaseous.

Reply to
Depresion

Liquid just means many, many more molecules per unit volume than gas, determined by the temperature or more practically pressure its stored at. Obviously as soon as that pressure is released it'll boil to gas or whatever it's properties dictate. Wouldn't fancy a bottle of liquid oxygen in the boot though.

Reply to
Johnny

When it goes through that phase change from liquid to gas it absorbs energy from the surroundings cooling the intake air mailing it more dense, this is also a good thing when it comes to engines.

Reply to
Depresion

Yeah I'm really new to nitrous and trying to learn as much as I can as quickly as I can (that's slowly BTW). Would these obvious changes to the air density in the combustion chamber have any knock on effect to the existing fuel system in my car? It has a monitored fuel supply dictated by sensors that measure various parameters (I wish I could be more specific). The ECU makes checks and adjustments many times a second and I still can't fathom how introducing nitrous oxide and extra fuel might affect this monitoring and the existing injected fuel supply if at all.

Reply to
Johnny

Laughing!

Reply to
Burgerman

And the fact that it goes into your engine as a very dense almost completely still liquid means that it does not displace much (if any due to the temperature drop) of the original airflow. And because it has much nitrogen still to absorb the heat produced and prevent instant detonation and allow controlled expansion instead.

No because... To begin with it would be the same as adding oxygen to your motor. It causes HORRENDOUS detonation, even in small amounts (been there! honda

50!) because it already has the free oxygen available. The free oxygen in Nitrous Oxide is unavailable untill early in the combustion proces when there is enough heat to free it. Its not a mixture but a compound.

And... You HAVE to use liquid! Compressed air (even with extra oxygen) at say 3000 psi as divers use takes up the space in the inlet tract that would be normal air! So any power increase would be minimal anyway, as you just effectively removed the original intake system...

And the charge cooling from the latent heat of evaporation causes a contaction of the normal (warm) air in the intake system. This actually increases the normal airflow through the carb/throttle body up to say 50 percent extra power increase.

And you cannot compress air into a liquid... And... And...

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it

Since its MUCH les dense (IE far from being a liquid) its actually more expensive...

I know it wont!

Ist a mixture of O2 because oxygen likes to combine with something! O1 turns itself into O2 quickly... O3 (ozone) soon also turns to O2...

And N2

Not a coumpound so the oxygen is available for causing detonation!

Reply to
Burgerman

That's something else it's good for (so I've heard)

Reply to
Johnny

No that only happens because of oxygen starvation. Don't try it!

Reply to
Burgerman

Go read the gasoline FAQ! section 9.9

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O2 enrichment delivers O2 gas, it does not have the slow and steady release of decomposing 2N20 = 2N2 + O2 that happens in a NOS system. So you can't just dump loads in with some fuel and have it burn rice and slow. Max will be as quoted for membrane enrichment about 30-40% total O2. Need to retard the ignition to allow for faster burn, need some good metal in the engine to take the high burn temperature (ie not Ford Zetec 1.8).

As Burgerman has pointed out O2 (and divers air etc) is stored as compressed gas and not a liquid [1] so you don't get any cooling and stored volume is small, phut - gone. 3000psi tanks are a lot thicker walled and heavier than 750psi C02/N20 tanks.

[1] Don't want to go there, due to low temp on rocket liquid O2 tanks being maintained by boil off you would lose more than you got to use.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

The ECU stops checking on O2 sensor at high load as they use a rich setting for acceleration. N20 is only injected when throttle is wide open. So ECU doesn't notice and don't care.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Reply to
Peter Hill

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